Last week a self defined Mormon grandmother named Kathryn Skaggs wrote a blog in an effort to alert the world that the movie Frozen was targeting children with a “gay agenda”. In a sense, she was not alone in seeing “something gay”. Many gay bloggers reviewed it with the thrill that it captured the air of gay persecution and some went so far as to dub it “the gayest Disney movie ever.”
They, of course, did not mean it in the same way Ms. Skaggs did. There seems to be some common ground that there is a relevant LGBT message, even if we can’t all agree on exactly what it is, and whether it is “bad”.
Ms. Skaggs is a California pro-proposition 8 activist who feels her religious beliefs should trump the right of other families to enjoy the love and commitment she does. Her writing expresses the fear that same sex marriage is the single most daunting threat to society. Her obsession on this topic consumed her long before a certain animated movie hit the multi-plex.
It is not a mystery, therefore, why this icy blockbuster riled her sensibilities and got her all frosted. She saw that it made some gay people happy, and that translated to mean it was not only bad for her, but that it also threatened life as she knows it.
Logically, her points in her anti-Frozen blog are absurd and as paranoid as she worries they might be. In her follow up blog, she claims that she wants no boycott (Phew… it would be tough for her to call for one given she has taken three car loads of children to see it.), no ill will towards the film and a rejoice that others got something out of it. It certainly begs the question as to the purpose of her fussing.
For me, I found her reaction disturbing and worthy of discussion. She is a grandmother, I am a dad. She took her kids to see Frozen, I took mine. Let’s rumble.
Dear Ms. Skaggs,
I know you are smarting a bit due to the public thumping you have taken over your “Not Going to Let it Go” piece. On Twitter you gave it the old “at least it raised awareness” sound bite. News flash: we were already aware.
You weren’t totally wrong. Don’t misunderstand me, you were MOSTLY wrong. You are also wrong about religious rights, the mob actions of a majority who wants a minority to disappear, and about many of the other real ills of the world. Those are discussions for another day.
The discussion this week has been the movie Frozen. You have raised the alarm, mostly unsuccessfully, to declare that this movie is a propaganda film targeting kids with the hidden goal of indoctrinating them with the “gay agenda”. You feel it would “normalize” gay people and allow them (us) to participate in same sex marriages. As a gay dad with two beautiful sons adopted through foster care from drug addicted parents, I am mystified why it is important to you that my family be marginalized and treated as abnormal. I am not arguing whether the idea to accept people who are different is presented. It certainly is. I don’t understand why you have a meanness in rejecting that concept as a good one.
There was something “gay” about Frozen. It was in there. Why else would thousands of gay people get deep gut emotional reaction from the song “Let it Go”? Why else would it be heralded as a terrific “coming out” anthem?
The thing that is in the plot of the movie is a thing called “hope”. It is the hope that people would be accepted for who they are. It is the hope that people who are different will no longer be treated as “bad”, and as something to hide. It is the hope that the bullied will no longer be bullied, and the wonderfully human will be allowed to be proud. That is the “gay” that is in Frozen.
The other things that worried you so much are just not in this movie. Sorry, they aren’t. You worry that Elsa is celebrating disobedience. She isn’t. Ariel took care of that in Little Mermaid. You worry that opposite sex marriage is mocked by Anna’s willingness to marry the first guy that pays attention to her. The movie does not dwell on that point, it works through it. Anna ends up with a guy who treats her as an equal person. For mockable opposite sex pairings due to a single meeting please see Cinderella, wed after one dance; Snow White, wed after a coma and a kiss; and Aurora who only needed a deep sleep and a kiss. The only place heterosexual pairings could earn more derision is on shows like The Bachelor.
Mostly, however, you worry that the movie targeted kids, converting them over. I can assure you that your fears are misguided. (My blogger friend Aaron has suspicions they are not, but I think he was just kidding.) If anyone is susceptible for the indoctrination you worry about, I assume that it would be my kids, raised by a Dad and a Papa.
Fret no more. Here is a conversation I had with my son Jesse, not long after seeing the movie Frozen:
Jesse: “Dad, I have decided that life is about the three Ws”.
Me: “Oh? And what are the three Ws Pal?”
Jesse: “Who are you? Where are you going? And –What are you going to do?”
Me: “Wow. OK. So, what are the answers to those questions for you?”
Jesse: “Well, I am a kid who loves his family. When I grow up, I am going to move to Maui. And… I am going to get married and have a kid someday.”
Taking advantage of a natural moment of opportunity, I then heard myself asking a question I had never posed to him before:
Me: “And who do you see yourself marrying? A man or a woman?” Jesse paused. I was impressed how he did not regard the question as strange. He did not react to it as if there was any preconception as to what his answer should be or was likely to be. He answered without pressure or coercion and with a brief moment of self-reflection.
Jesse:“I’m thinking… a girl.”
Me: “Cool Pal! Sounds like you have things well planned out.” With that, my son had come out to me, as “likely straight”.
Frozen, if it was to mesmerize kids into being gay, had not sunk into a young man who according to “theory” would be a prime candidate.
It leads me to the big question Ms. Skaggs. Of all your grandkids who dragged you to see the Disney movie that you seem to regard with a degree of suspicion, what will happen when one of them comes out to you in the future as gay? There is a chance, statistically, that one of them might be, after all.
What will you do? Will you tell them to cover up and hide, and feel the shame of being different—as Elsa’s parents did? Will you lead them to suicidal feelings, or throw them to the street, as many parents do to their kids in that situation?
Or will you learn the lesson that Anna did, that acceptance and love of your family is the biggest “true love” of all?
Yes, Ms. Skaggs. The movie had a hidden message. It had a message of love, and hope. It had the desire to melt the closed heart and inspire it to let go, and love other people. It wants the target of its message to warm from within and to accept others as they are, and give them the freedom to live their best and fullest lives. What you got wrong is this: that message was not targeted at your grand kids.
It was meant for you.
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I am gay and was raised Mormon – orthodox Mormon really as my parents homeschoolled all 9 of their kids as well. Coming out was hard especially when I believed Mormon leaders spoke directly to God. That plus my only social interaction took place at church and no one wanted to be around the fag/awkward homeschoolled kid. I’m happy to say, though, that most my family has been so supportive of me and that I’ve met so many wonderful people in the past few years. What I don’t have is the support of my parents who frequently email me about getting help for my “addiction/perversion.” I love your post because it’s what I want for myself. My mom is like that grandmother and I wish she could get the message the movie intended it to influence. Family support is the single most important factor in the healthy psychological development of LGBT youth as Caitlyn Ryan found in her research.
All I can say is thank you. Thank you for writing this. Thank you for helping me learn one more thing today. Thank you for speaking out. Thank you for telling the truth. Thank you for being you.
A little back history on the Mormon church might be beneficial for some readers. The affirmative side of prop 8 raised approximately 80 million dollars in California. 40 million came from Mormons. One middle class family that belonged to the church, gave their life savings to the cause; $50,000. Local Mormon church leaders read letters to their congregations from church authorities, specifically instructing members do donate their time and money to the cause. For more details on this involvement, please view the film documentary; “Eight, the Mormon Proposition”. After the Mormon involvement in prop 8 was brought to light, the church was fined by the state of CA for non disclosure of all of its material donations to the political cause. The real aftermath though, came from the court of public opinion on this matter. This was a public relations disaster. Inside the church, members left specifically because of their organizations overwhelming involvement in such a bigoted stunt. The general public saw the church’s involvement as bigoted as well, mean spirited, and quite ironic. Ironic because the Mormon church instituted a very peculiar marriage system early in the 1800’s – polygamy. After instituting such a system, they then proceeded to declare that SSM was not an acceptable form of marriage. There are two hats the Mormon church wears with regards to homosexuality. The new public persona, born out of damage control, is that Christ loves all, both gay and straight. The internal understanding is that homosexuality is a grievous sin. A “practicing” gay cannot return to live with God the father. It is the church’s position that the condition of the homosexual is their own cross to bear in this life. That they were born this way does not matter, it is still a stumbling block God set before them as a test. Of course, the old trite saying; “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin” is often brought up in tandem with SSA. The unfortunate side of this saying is that the hate for the proclaimed sin always seems to splash over the alleged sinner as well.
Well done! Thanks for posting this. I hope your message of LOVE continues to trump Ms. Skaggs’s message of hate.
Thanks BCD! Hope people click through on your name to the great Frozen review on your site as well!
How would the mormon grandmother react if any of her grandchildren later came out as gay? I’m guessing with a lot of love and compassion… if she follows the counsel of the LDS church leaders. And with how committed she seems to her faith, I’m guessing she follows their counsel.
Taken from the church’s official website:
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.” John 13:34. “Jesus Christ commanded us to love our neighbors. Whether sinner or saint, rich or poor, stranger or friend, everyone in God’s small world is our neighbor, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. Latter-day Saints believe that our true commitment to Christian teachings is revealed by how we respond to this commandment. This love is tested every day of our lives. We may know individuals with same-sex attraction in our workplaces, congregations and town halls. As people with hopes, fears and aspirations like everyone else, these neighbors deserve our love. But we can’t truly love the neighbors next door if we don’t love the neighbors under our own roof. Family members with same-sex attraction need our love and understanding. God loves all his children alike, much more than any of us can comprehend, and expects us to follow. As a church, nobody should be more loving and compassionate. Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach. Let’s not have families exclude or be disrespectful of those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender.” Elder Quentin L. Cook of the Quorum of the 12 apostles… the highest Quorum in the LDS church.
PS… Just to clarify my comment, “LDS” is another nickname for the Mormon church. The official name is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints,” often shortened to LDS or Mormon (after the Book of Mormon, of course).
Also… I enjoyed your post! Didn’t want you to be mistaken about that! As as active mormon in the LDS church, I strive to love my neighbors. And my gay and lesbian friends are some of my very faves. 🙂
You are wrong. Here in Utah, so many kids in LDS families are thrown out of the house when they come out that we have the highest LGBTQ homeless population in America. She would likely disown them.
…just playing the odds, not that I know her.
I know 12 sets of mormon parents that have gay/lesbian children. All of them have embraced with love and understanding. So if we’re playing the odds… my bet is she wouldn’t disown them. But since I’m pretty sure no one has even conducted a scientifically sound study on how many mormon parents/grandparents embrace their homosexual children vs. throw them out, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Individual families not kicking kids out is not the point–a theological system which requires lifelong celibacy, complete denial, or excommunication is the problem. No matter how lovey individual families might be, LGBT* folk are still officially marginalized. Y’all don’t get to live down Prop 8 with some well-crafted PR and scripted responses. You have to own up to what you did–and also what you are still doing. Anything else is disingenuous.
Wow I really think you are judging a whole based on a few. There are always extremists in every religion…
According to several of the commenters on her own blog, Ms. Skaggs’s own daughter is gay and her original piece was a thinly-veiled attack toward her own daughter. Which makes it even more sad in my opinion.
this is sweet and lovely. Thank you for staying so upbeat. You neglected to point out the real thought and meaning behind Let It Go which, according to this article must have been written by 12 year old boys 🙂 http://huopo.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/the-true-meaning-of-frozen-let-it-go/
I think it’s amazing that so many people found hope from this movie, and am glad you took the time to point that out. You didn’t fight ugliness with ugliness, but with exactly what Frozen is about; hope. I personally related to Let It Go for a number of reasons, but in Elsa’s plight I saw my own battle with depression, anxiety and mental illness. Thank goodness we can all see the light in it. Disney did something right, I think.
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I can only imagine her reaction to Dumbo. It’s the same plot and moral.
What a brilliant, true and poignant rebuttal from the gay dad! I’m in tears. Thank you.
Some of you might be interested in Kathryn Skaggs’ daughters response. She put it on Facebook a week ago.
Laura Skaggs Dulin:
To whom it may concern: I am the lesbian daughter of Kathryn Skaggs, the author of the recent blog post condemning the Disney movie Frozen for having “a liberal gay agenda.” I am also an active, believing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as a mental health professional. After much personal debate and inner turmoil, I feel it is important to state publicly (just as I have many many times privately) that I do not support the vilifying of the gay community that occurs through much of this blog post and has also been a part of other posts made by my mother in the past. Perpetually stigmatizing and demonizing the LGBT community has been shown to contribute to serious mental health problems within this population such as depression, anxiety and suicide ideation that tragically at times has ended in death. Such attitudes and language also continues to foster isolation and unnecessary wedges between LGBT people and their families and within communities and I can no longer sit silent as I am fully aware that these things continue to be experienced as harmful not only to myself but to some of the most vulnerable within the Mormon population and in society. I pray my fellow members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will collectively continue to move forward in following the teachings our church leaders on this matter as they advocated on mormonsandgays.org which specifically calls for sensitivity, thoughtfulness, compassion, love and being at the forefront of outreach to lesbians and gays. ” As a church, no one should be more loving and compassionate.” – Elder Quentin L. Cook – I hope and pray that might truly be so.
Sincerely, Laura Skaggs Dulin
Great to read… thanks for sharing that. (Feel free to share this with Laura…)
I think there’s something else that Laura would say, which I know to be true as I know Kathryn. She’s one of the most sweet and loving people I have ever met, or could hope to meet. She’s so in love with everyone of her family that it would blow your mind. She’s a pleasure to know.
Thank you for the post. May we all love and be loved the way Christ meant it, with all the love in our hearts not matter what or whom.
Homophobes are not sweet and loving. They’re just not. They’re bigots, and bigots are awful. It doesn’t matter if you blame your bigotry on your religion.
Personally, I have a hard time distinguishing a good deal of Christian love for gay people from outright hate. It just dresses better and has a nicer haircut.
Holla.
I am Mormon, a Grandma, and the mother of a 17 year old gay son. The two of us absolutely loved watching Frozen together…as an afternoon treat…not because it was gay, or because he was gay, but because we love each other and truly enjoyed time spent together watching a cute movie. People….Love each other….no matter what!
As another Mormon who loathes her article and take on the movie, I just want to tell you how much I love this rebuttal.
It’s so crazy to me the way people act this way and blow stuff way out of proportion. I mean come on now it’s a Disney movie and children are watching it. They aren’t thinking about gay or straight. There just watching a cool movie. Shame on that grandma. By her saying those things and people putting this stuff in the media, that’s what sends messages to the kids about gay and straight.
I’m a Mormon Grandmother and this women is an idiot. She doesn’t represent Mormons or Grandmas. She is a women with an agenda. Maybe she is homophobic? My religion welcomes all and we don’t care what sex you are attracted to. And… I obsessed with the movie Frozen and it’s soundtrack. It’s brilliant and a phenomenon!
I grew up Mormon… and that faith does NOT welcome gays. Kathy, your heart seems good and I’m happy for you on that… but the Church of later day saints has made it plainly clear that they are a bigot fear lead organization that lashes out against things they don’t completely understand. The shame is that Mormons are actually quite nice… as long as you fit their mold.
From 34 years of Church membership, I have to agree with David. Mormons don’t LIKE being thought of in that way–but if they are not willing to do something different, they don’t have that choice.
I disagree. We love and welcome everyone. We even have a gay man in our ward. I remember being in a ward with a gay young woman. They are totally accepted. The Church has made it clear that we are to be kind and Christlike to everyone. Look up recent official Church statements.
That was not my experience Ellen. I grew up in Utah county. I’m not gay but my older sister is.
The reason I was not accepted wasn’t because of my sister, who remained in the closet until she had left home and we’d moved to a new city. It was because my parents were inactive and when I was living there as a grownup, because I had a coffeepot in my kitchen. Kids were not allowed over at my house to play with me when I was growing up and then not allowed over with my kids despite the kind and Christlike talk in conference. I don’t live in Utah anymore. My family does. They are STILL having issues like this.
It’s pervasive. But then, I don’t suppose you’ve ever had someone look you over for your underwear lines or even touch your shoulder before they decide how to treat you.
MANY people in Utah and other places feel they are above others because of their religion….. I think the problem is that the gospel is true but the church is filled with people who ARE NOT… coming from a very UNperfect LDS (mormon) lady.
I too have to agree with David. My parents grew up Mormon, and because they were married at such a young age (16) they were kicked out of the church. When I was applying to colleges fresh out of high school (in Utah), I can’t count how many times I was declined from a college or for a scholarship because I wasn’t Mormon (and yes they asked). There were so many times I went to friend’s houses where the first thing their family asked me was “what ward are you in?” When I responded with “I’m not Mormon”, I was treated terribly. I know this doesn’t represent the entire Mormon population obviously, but mine and my family’s experiences don’t shine a good light on Mormons. 😦
I, too, must agree with David. After all, Prop 8, in California, was largely funded and supported by the Mormon Church.
LOVED this. So good on so many levels. (From a Mormon ally)
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I have two daughters. All I asked each time I was pregnant was that my child be born healthy and grow up to be happy, healthy and loved. I have two daughters, grown women both, who are happy, healthy and deeply in love with their life partners. One is gay the other isn’t. I rejoice that all I asked for, the universe gave them. Movie’s like Frozen are about love and acceptance,. Believe it our not there is no “gay agenda”. There are just some people in this world, unlike Ms Skaggs, who believe that everyone deserves the same respect and opportunities in life no matter what their sexual orientation.
Her daughter is gay and in a mixed orientation marriage. I suspect a good portion of her fear of the gayz is because she feels she failed her daughter. She has no idea that nothing she could do would change her daughters sexual it and will continue to speak horribly about gays and their agenda out of the fear and hysteria like the far right crazies like herself exacerbate.
She is a horrible woman. She is a horrible example of the LDS church. There are many of us who don’t agree with her and are against the way people in the church treat gays. Many of us hope these will change. We are trying to change it from the inside the church.
Reblogged this on A Woman's World and commented:
I know this doesn’t really apply to women’s studies but I love this guy’s message. I thought it was really powerful and I think it’s great that a dad responded so strongly.
I read what she wrote and saw it as “i need attention so im going to reach for insane things and write about them”
When i watched Frozen with my family i was waiting with baited breath to see what act of true love would save the day. When it was sisterly love i cant tell you how happy i was. Nothing againt prince/princess love (my favorite movie is little mermaid) but i want my daughter to grow up knowing she doesnt always have to be saved by a man. As a gay single mom of an amazing little girl movies like frozen are my hope for the future. I want her to know being different is ok, no need to hide or be ashamed. I love frozen and i actually hope one of ms. Skaggs grandchildren are lucky enough to be gay so that maybe she can be enlightened on differences and see maybe its not the worst thing that could happen
Her daughter is gay… wish granted…
aaaaaaand you win the internet.
Wonderful response.
I read her rant. Way too long though. I am a 38 year old man who was raised Mormon, went on a mission and did just about everything that was “right”, until I came out at 22. A year later my younger sister came out and then a couple years later, my younger brother came out. Yes, 3 kids out of 7 are gay. Mom and Dad were besides themselves. They honestly did not know how to handle it and it was tough for quite a while.
Fast forward to today…
A lot has changed. My family has opened up their hearts and minds and now accept us for who we are, not what they (or the church) wants us to be. My partner is invited to family gatherings (He attended both Mothers Day and Thanksgiving with my family this last year), and my parents ask about him often. They still hold their LDS beliefs close to them, but have given us a place in their hearts as well.
Unconditional love is not easy to achieve. It can be difficult, but with enough work and time, even she can do it. It’s a safe bet to say that one of her grandkids is gay. I hope she will be able to learn from all of this and change. My parents did (in their 70’s).
Hi Chris! It’s Kennifer! Love your reply!
Thanks and God bless
Very well written. I find it very sad that responses let keep this even have to be written. Hatred and bigotry walk the earth every day in all forms. The LGBTQ community should not have to ever hear words or see actions that make us feel as though we are second class citizens, and yet it happens every single day. Why the hate, I will never understand. Thank you for the amazing response to yet another person who needs to get a clue. On a side note, you are definately raising your children right.
I agree with what you have written, but I want to point out that just because she is anti-gay or whatever you want to call it doesn’t make her a hateful biggot (if in fact you were referring to Ms. Skaggs). I am anti alcohol and tobacco, but that in no way means that I hate anyone who drinks or smokes and it definitely doesn’t mean I want them to have different rights than everyone that doesn’t smoke or drink. And you are correct, the LGBTQ community should never be treated as second class citizens. NO ONE should. Including people with beliefs that are different from yours or even outwardly disagree with your lifestyle.
Reblogged this on eileengriffin and commented:
Love this so much.
“What you got wrong is this: that message was not targeted at your grand kids.
It was meant for you.”
-If ever anything on the internet deserved the ‘slow clap’, it is this.
for myself, I don’t care what they believe. It’s what they do that matters.
What a shame a post like this had to be written at all. A film portrays a message of love and still there are people who only think their version of love is the only one that counts.
What an amazing article. 🙂
Reblogged this on Paula Acton and commented:
My boy is 5 and obsessed with watching wildlife documentaries, he declared earlier this week he wants to be an angler fish when he grows up, Ms Skaggs would probably demand the end to all wildlife programmes if she heard one of her grandkids come out with that, actually she would probably like them banned for pushing Evolution propaganda on kids, her sort of intolerance has no place in the world I want my child to grow up in and although I have not seen this film I will take it’s message of hope and tolerance and applaud it until it drowns out the toxic voices such as Ms Skaggs
This reminded me of when my son was little & saw the video for Dire Strait’s song about MTV. He wanted to be a Lego Man, like the characters in the video.
No, no. You’ve got it all wrong. He could be a fish, just not a GAY fish. Or, God forbid, a rainbow trout.
Reblogged this on Wine And Roses From Outer Space and commented:
It’s a crying shame that this message even still needs to be spread. Since it does, however, I am more than happy to pass it along.
Okay, I’m sorry if this seems hateful, but BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN! I think Ms. Skaggs is going to need some ice water for that burn. I haven’t see this movie yet (doesn’t really peak my interest, but I may watch it some day), though a lot of my friends have. I’ve heard about how it’s a pro-gay movie (well, it hints at it being such), and Disney is finally doing something right. I’ve even been trying to find the episode of Good Luck Charlie that has a same sex couple! Point is, well, I can’t think of a good way to word it, but I like this post and support it. (I apologize, I can’t word things decently)
I’ve just finished watching the movie and I didn’t see anything gay about it. I did notice the guy in the hot tub family photo but that was all, and that’s open to interpretation. I think that Mormon granny is out of her mind. It’s just a harmless Disney kids film.
yeah well I guess there’s enough ice in her part of the world to apply to that burn
Well said! I don’t know why people feel so compelled to try and enforce very constrained versions of what’s normal, but it’s sad. Congratulations on your family!
bravo! well said.
Yaay! Two thumbs up, for this response to the Grandma! I wasn’t really interested in seeing “Frozen” before this, but now I think I will 🙂
This is really beautiful. I love how eloquently you describe your feelings and opinion.
I would just like to say something here. I am a Mormon. And I am a gay supporter. I LOVE that you have a partner and two beautiful children. I hope that someday some of my friends will get that same opportunity.
I only say this because I want it to be known that it is not because she is Mormon that she wrote these things. It is because that is what SHE believes. I know of a growing number of Mormons that do support and love our friends who are gay. Some of us disagree on certain things, but I believe that part of being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints means that it is my responsibility to represent Christ. And Christ loves EVERYONE. No matter what. I have met people that have changed my life simply because I did not hate them for who they are.
Mormons also believe in agency. So, while I believe that it is not anyone’s place to take away your right to choose how you decide to live your life, I also have to believe that it is that grandmother’s right to believe what she does. Even if I don’t agree with her.
I hope I was able to get my point across half as beautifully as you did, but the point is….please don’t place blame the religion for the actions of the member.
I hope you continue to find love and happiness in your life! 🙂
Point taken Callista! BTW– the ONLY reason I even mentioned that she was Mormon because that is the name of her blog and she seems to brand her self with that identity. But to your point…I have no pre-conceived notions on Mormons…. or grandmothers! 🙂
Thank you for your comment!
Speaking from the perspective of someone who spent over three decades in the Church, you are delusional if you think this attitude is not prevalent in the Church. I seem to keep encountering LDS folk who are very anxious to have others know they are not one of “those” Mormons–but, bottom line, you belong to and endorse an organization which has as a foundational premise that those who do not identify as straight have two and only two choices: stay celibate and die alone in a church obsessed with family or leave/get kicked out and be treated as a pariah afterward. And, as a sect which believes in current revelation, there is no change to that in sight unless and until the prophet himself declares otherwise. After all that anti-gay planning which went into the Proclamation on the Family, I don’t see that happening, do you? That is not acceptance. That is not love. That is not the minority fringe view–it is the fiber of the Church. Choose as you will where you put your beliefs–but you can’t have your cake and eat it too on this one.
I would also like to make it clear that not all Mormons would like for “a minority to disappear” like was said about ms. Skaggs. In fact, I am certain very few Mormons would want that. You’ll find a few of those crazy people in any church. And speakeasy25, there are more options for gay Mormons than the ones you mentioned above. Take for example josh weed. He is a gay Mormon blogger who has a wife that he loves and kids with her. I’m not saying that’s right for everyone, but there are options. I’m Mormon and I don’t want amy minorities to disappear nor do I want them to feel like they they are ostracized (especially by Mormons) because we love everyone, just as Jesus did. He loved the guards that he asked to be forgiven as he was on the cross. He loved the woman who he forgave that was caught in adultery. I think I speak for the majority of members of our church that our core gospel is Christ like love for others (including tolerance). We would like the same tolerance in return. If you disagree with something we believe don’t hate us for it. I have struggled with depression in the past and being open about it felt great. Let it go made me think of that experience, and just as I would never hate someone for struggling with depression and being open about it, I wouldn’t hate someone for coming out about being gay.
When I sat in the Bishop’s living room to watch the DOMA ad we were all summoned to back in 1999, I got a real taste of what the LDS stance on “loving” gays is. Before the Bishop came in and we could speak freely without having to seem pious and worthy, the Young Men’s president went off on a diatribe about disgusting pillow-biters. The Relief Society counselor made a HILARIOUS crack about Adam and Eve and Steve and you know how it goes. The Primary president said she didn’t want her kids to “see two gay guys going at it in the front yard.” And then, when the Bishop walked in, everyone started talking in hushed tones about marriage sanctity and chastity. It was a gross display–and one which got repeated thousands of times in thousands of living rooms over Prop 8. I was just eternally thankful I had had the good sense and self-respect to be gone by then. Mormons can say whatever PR-scripted thing they like about the LGBT+ community at this point–actions speak louder than words. And the actions of the Church and its membership have been obscene.
Thanks for saying that my comment sounded like it was PR scripted. It actually just came from my own brain. And there’s one important thing that you are forgetting (and most people do, so I don’t blame you), the people in the church are not always inspired and are very much imperfect. If you hear or see a church leader doing or saying something that is offensive or a “gross display” it doesn’t mean Mormonism is a sham. I’ve been called to a leadership position and I make mistakes all the time, and in fact there is something kind of beautiful about having imperfect leaders because you have to learn to forgive people for their shortcomings and still love them despite it. What this all comes down to is your relationship with god and the holy ghost. Have you read the book of Mormon, or even the bible for that matter? Have you prayed earnestly to know if they are true books? If you know those books are true and that god is real, then everything else falls into place and you are willing to forgive people who you disagree with and still love them like Christ would.
Also scripted responses. I heard them seven billion times during three decades of membership. There is nothing Mormons say which is not from a collection of scripts they have been so thoroughly taught they don’t even recognize anymore. And, seriously, if I hear the “There’s the Church and there’s the gospel” justification one more time…
Religions have to reinvent themselves to keep up with the cultural evolution happening around them, unless they want to bleed members. We see this begin in the “liberal” wings of sects, where they offer new apologetics to show why their god is really not anti gay, divorce, birth control, or whatever. This allows the flock to remain in a religion that has lagged far behind secular standards of morality and fairness.
But the conservative bases of the various sects have it exactly right – their sacred texts really DO call for the disgusting atrocities which the wider world has rejected. If one is a person of fairness and compassion, you will end up either just paying lip service to your religion, or, even better, you will “Let It Go.”
Wow. So, um, your kid is “likely *straight” huh? Are you OKAY with that? I mean, wow, that’s heavy. Wait. No it’s not! 😉 A great read and wonderful response to hatred. Well done.
(Full internet disclosure: replace “likely straight” with “likely gay” and the same sarcastic sentiment applies.)
I am BEYOND OK with that! I ONLY want him to be happy. If you want to read about how I feel about whether my sons will be straight or gay, read this: https://evolequals.com/2012/08/10/a-gay-dads-perspective-on-the-hate-note-writing-father-4-2/
Thanks for the comment!
From what I understand, her daughter is openly gay and her issue is more with her daughter than anything else.
which means her issue is probably with her own perceived failure as a mother and a Mormon. It figures.
OH MY GOD!!!!! THIS WAS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much for setting her straight! It sounds like to me she dislikes the gays or has some type of feeling toward them! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude. You’re awesome. I can’t express how grateful I am that somebody tackled her extremely hateful and bigoted homophobic post and did it in such a concise yet powerful manner. Power to you bro. I just tweeted her this blog’s link so hopefully she reads it and gets put in the right place. God Bless you man.
Btw, this horrible woman’s FB page is public and she can be sent a message. I did.
I wish I could be the mother to all those kids thrown to the curb by their families because they came out. I really wish I could.
Great response to the misconception that homosexuality can be “indoctrinated”!
Reblogged this on Mike Dalgarno and commented:
A great and well articulated response to the Mormon Grandmother who accused Frozen of trying to normalize homosexuality.
My favourite part is the last couple of lines…Well played.
awesome! but i dont know if anyone noticed, there was something else “gay” in the movie… the guy in the store, when he showed them his family in the sauna… if you pause for a moment u’ll see that among his kids there was a guy, probably his partner (the guy in the store was obviously gay..) :p
Beautiful And that last sentence……….ahhhh, gave me goosebumps. Well done.
Reblogged this on Titles are Hard and commented:
An EXCELLENT blog and response to a Mormon Grandmother who fears the movie “Frozen” is leading children to be gay.
An absolutely beautiful dissection of this diatribe. I wrote this as a comment to this nice Mormon lady, and have expanded it a bit for this. Sorry for jumping the snark.
Well, no I’m not.
Dear MoMo (Rhymes with homo)
You’re right, there is an agenda to normalize homosexuality. That’s what we gay people are here for: to end this vicious prejudice so that gay kids can grow up normally, whatever that means, and have love, romance, family, children, religious freedom– and horror of horrors, perhaps even a healthy relationship with their sexuality, rather than what you would wish for them.
However, what’s unfortunately true, and what damages your premise, is that this movie has nothing to do with that agenda, however much you wish to find that in it. You might want to look at the story of Susannah and the Elders. It’s the opposite side of the coin of “Skaggs and the Frozen.” Same coin, different sides.
Projection: it’s not just for the movies.
You’ve claimed you’re not anti-gay, but believe that “acting on same-sex attraction is contrary to God’s will,” Well, you’re entitled to your religious beliefs, and to create your god in your own image, after your likeness. It doesn’t make you antigay in my estimation, but it does increase the probability dramatically.However, when you follow that statement with this: “It’s going to require the indoctrination of our children, in order to lead the their generation to the next, necessary, level of mainstream social acceptance…” Well, really, that kind of language actually kinda does make you a bigot– a paranoid bigot with delusions of persecution.
You’re fanatasizing (misspelling intentional) some great gay plot, enforced by the government, I guess, to force acceptance on an unwilling society of righteous people, much as those you and your ilk believe that all gay people, imaginarily liberal judges and a non-existent liberal media are targeting your children. You got your bogey-man, all righty, but you simply ignore the polls, the elections, the news, the reasoning, the compassion, and the backlash, even by conservatives, to your way of thinking.
Unfortunately for you, this conspiracy doesn’t exist. What you can’t, don’t, and won’t understand, the tide is turning against homobigotry– slowly, but surely. The younger generation already doesn’t agree with you. And decent, kind, fair-minded Americans are rapidly seeing your prejudice for what it is– religious bigotry is the nicest description of it. And I’m too much of a gentleman to call it what it really is, so I’ll settle for this: an ancient, durable, and vicious prejudice, given the thinnest possible veneer of respectability by calling it “religious belief”, or “god’s will”, or any of the other claptrap you feed yourself so that you can excrete “I’m a concerned, moral, Christian woman.”
Even if it were true– and it’s most emphatically not true– exactly what’s wrong with that? Ending a vicious prejudice is a bad thing? Anti-Semitism, also justified as “sincere religious belief” brought so much good to the world, didn’t it? As has every other prejudice we have eventually discarded.
Do you really think that kids are going to turn gay if homosexuality is “normalized”? Perhaps you’re afraid that you will? Who knows? I can’t fathom the minds of people who are irretrievably poisoned by their own fears and ignorance.
Here’s the reality. People increasingly don’t and won’t agree with you. You simply cannot believe that right-thinking (in all sense of the word) people don’t agree with you any more. But they’re not being manipulated, as you believe. YOU ARE. The right wing media, the hysterical religious right, the dominionists, the homo-hating homos, the Anita Bryants and Tony Perkins and Scott Lively’s and Rush Limbaughs of the world, the troglodytes of the Republican Party– even your own Thomas Monson– all have a stake in convincing you that the evil gays are after your children and grandchildren, that we have an agenda, that you’re a target.
You are indeed a target, but not ours. You’re a target of their campaign for votes, power, money, and dominion. And especially, you’re a target of the homo-hating-homos, who I am increasingly convinced form the core army against ending this vicious prejudice. These last, especially, are far more afraid of ending the prejudice than even you are. That’s what a steady, life-long diet of fear and self-hatred will do to you– pervert, and twist, and corrupt, and destroy. And as the gay rights battles rage, as more and more people come out to their friends, families, neighbors, and colleagues, as the religious right hysteria mounts to a screeching crescendo on inanity, cray-cray, paranoia, fear, ill will, detachment from reality, and stupidity…
people not already irretrievably poisoned by hate, ignorance, stupidity, paranoia, fear, or something you sarcastically refer to as “sincere religious belief” are seeing you for what you are.
And it isn’t pretty.
Too bad for you and your kind. The tide is turning.
Love, Your gay grandson.
Wow! I wasn’t expecting you to be her grandson! Good for you! I hope she comes to see the Light before it is too late.
Sorry, I’m not actually her grandson. If I were, she would be older than the witch of Caldor. I was trying–apparently not to well– to make a point to her.
wow okay so umm, here’s my take. While I haven’t seen the movie I do have an opinion on Mormons and gay people because I was raised Mormon. I spent the first 30yrs of my life dedicated to that church and my family. Then I found out my son is gay. He knew ever since he was a pre-schooler but he hid it from me and I never suspected. You know why? Because when he was little he looked up Mormon’s views on homosexuality on the internet and it was all negative. He lived in fear his whole upbringing thinking that I and his grandmother would not love him any more if we found out. It turned him into a nervous wreck. He is suicidal. And for nothing! Because I love my gay friends. I enjoy tv shows that feature gay characters. When I found out I did not reject him, I love and support him always. I don’t know who puts that crap out there about Mormons being anti-gay. I was certainly not raised that way. I suspect it may be local thing. Maybe it depends what part of the world you are in, who your local church leaders are, what their views are, how they push them onto others at church spreading their intolerance as doctrine, if they’re rabid republicans or something…
I have seen the “Let It Go” song on youtube and liked it. I identified it with my family (yes even the church too) since I have broken out of the mould and am now living my life my own way despite their disapproval. The thing is, if I don’t want to go to church anymore that is my decision and I have my reasons and I don’t need your permission or approval to live what is my life – not yours.
I expect gay people feel the same for their own reasons too.
I plan on watching the movie this weekend and if it is about someone breaking free of unreasonable expectations and being brave and being true to themselves then I think I’m going to love it!
My opinion is that everyone is an individual and entitled to live their own life their own way. It is the people who are trying to control and limit others with their own rules on who everything “should be” who are ruining others lives. Christ’s teachings are about love and kindness and charity, not being controlling and casting stones.
“I don’t know who puts that crap out there about Mormons being anti-gay.” Mormons do. That’s who. All anyone has to do is to be around LDS folk and listen to them talk when they think no gay folk are nearby. You say you didn’t notice anything like this when you were growing up–but I can counter your one experience with several dozen people from the LGBT+ community whose stories of abandonment and cruelty at the hands of the Church and individual LDS people would make your hair stand on end.
“That’s what we gay people are here for” Yessss! Thank you, Ben, for being here for us.
You’re more than welcome/.
Excellent article. I applaud you and your family, sir.
I don’t usually comment on anything I see on the internet but that was beautiful!