My younger brother is gay. Gay as laughter. Gay as the day is long. One of the finest moments in my life, and one of the greatest compliments anyone has ever paid me, was the day he felt safe to come out to me. He’s in his mid-30s now, but he’ll always be my little brother. And man, I love that kid. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. And he just married a phenomenal man.
I was always predisposed to like his husband because, y’know, he’s my brother’s partner and therefore has automatic status in my heart. The wonderful bonus is that I really like him. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. He’s a cool dude to hang out with. He also stood by my brother like a rock when my brother had a life-threatening cancer that cost him his left eye.
They married in May. It was a wonderful ceremony in which I was honored to stand by my brother, supporting him in his vows. My eyes teared up like they always do at weddings. I had the joy of watching two people commit to a lifetime together. It filled my heart.
Folks started posting photos from the wedding on Facebook, and I proudly reposted photos of the ceremony (with me looking awesome in my new suit, of course). Shortly after that, I received this message from a FB friend:
“Hey David, I am removing you from my friends list…sorry man, that latest post is way over the top! Homosexuals joining in “Holy” matrimony…I don’t think so??? The Holy Bible speaks out against homosexuality and speaks highly of Holy matrimony between a man and a woman. It’s nothing more than a slap in the face to those who choose God’s Word, for homosexuals to join in a Holy marriage. I’m only defriending you so I don’t have to look at your anti-God stuff anymore…nothing personal!”
Wow.
This came from a man I used to work with. A man I respect in his dedication to his family, and in his desire to live a moral and ethical life. A man with whom I have had some very interesting religious debates. He has become a Baptist preacher since we last spoke in person, and I suppose that makes this message unsurprising.
But, I was still surprised. I was taken aback. I needed a moment. I was hurt.
I was inclined to hurl some expletives in his direction.
But, only for a moment. He’s not really that important of a person in my life. I had actually at times grown rather tired of his Facebook postings…I don’t have a great need for fundamentalist dogma in my day. So, on some level, good riddance.
I sent him a letter at his church, expressing my disappointment in his withdrawal. I had a few friends read the letter before I sent it, to make sure that it didn’t contain too much bile. I’m not surprised that I haven’t heard back from him.
The situation got me thinking: What if this hadn’t been about my brother’s wedding, but about MY wedding? What if it hadn’t been from a distant friend, but from a beloved family member?
Ouch.
How many millions of gay kids (and adults) have had that exact thing happen to them? How many millions more will in the future?
I’m sorry.
I’m sorry for that pain. I’m sorry for that rejection. I’m sorry for that isolation.
I’m straight. Straight as a yardstick. Straight as an arrow. I am in your corner. If I could take on that pain for you, I would.
I love you.
If you’re gay, I think that’s wonderful, and I’m truly happy for you. I wish you all the love and joy in the world.
If you’re straight, I think that’s wonderful, and I’m truly happy for you. I wish you all the love and joy in the world. And I charge you, I charge you to imagine the above scenario played out with YOU as the target of rejection. Imagine the people closest to you telling you, essentially, “You are fundamentally flawed and I want nothing to do with you.” Our LGBTQ brothers and sisters face this everyday. Please don’t forget that.
The poor, misguided soul is no longer in my life. That’s okay. My brother and his husband still are. I just hung out with my brother a few weeks ago, and it was a blast. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. I couldn’t be prouder to call him my brother. I love him, and love wins, period.
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Reblogged this on Chronicles of a Zombie Moogle.
lovely sentiment. good thing to read before starting my work week! thanks for your kind words and thoughts!
it amazes me that people still think like that person. those are the people who judge every other person as they wish, but when questioned about their actions, reply “only god can judge me”
I recently lost 71 FB “friends” and am ASSuming it is because of my support for my 15 year old daughter who recently came out; even though I am a radically honest, ultra liberal, in your face right winger…and have posted some extreme stuff in the past. Do I care? Nope, ’cause nothing can come between me & my kid…not even THEIR god.
I wish all gay children were as lucky as your daughter.
I recently lost 71 FB “friends” and I can only ASSume it is because my 15 year old came out & I fully support her…even though I am a ultra liberal ring winger in general & tend to post radically in your face stuff all the time. I don’t care though, ’cause I love my kid and no one can come between that; not even THEIR God.
Far right fundamental Christians have been using the bible as a weapon against basic human rights for decades now. It’s all born of fear and ignorance. Fundamentalist have used the bible to justify slavery, to justify suppressing the vote for women, to justify the KKK, attacks against Jews and to justify stripping all basic rights from the new “outsiders” – homosexuals. Those that thump their bible in self-righteous indignation should perhaps actually sit down and read that book. Then they can go out to the public square and stone sinners to death and on their way home pick up a few new brides. I mean after-all the bible tells them so.
I’m a Catholic (proud of my faith), and I am a huge supporter of those who are gay. I see nothing wrong with it, and it makes me sad and angry that people can twist my religion to suit their arguments. They ignore the basic tenets of Christianity- love, respect, tolerance, and acceptance. They presume to think that they are speaking for God, in passing judgement.
I think this cartoon sums up my feelings nicely about those types of people:
I am one of those whose coming out resulting in two family members turning their backs in rejection, thus causing an irreparable rift in the family. Married to a man for 16 years, I made the discovery at mid-age that I was gay. My husband and I handled the situation as best as we could and now, 8 years later, still live together companionably as friends, parenting our two teenagers like we always did. Everything is out in the open, and honestly, my children are better equipped to handle life’s challenges because of this experience. My husband is one of 5 children. His two sisters turned their backs on us, and yes, I mean “us” because they no longer speak to him either and no longer will acknowledge me or my children. They blame me for manipulating their mother into “siding” with me when all she said to me is, “I don’t ‘get’ gay but you will ALWAYS be a member of this family.” Who is suffering the most? My mother-in-law, a daily Mass-attending Catholic woman who believes in Jesus, God and Family.
Your brother is lucky to have your love and support!
I was married to my partner of 5 1/2 years this weekend in NYC and while I can’t be sure, I think that several people have defriended me after posting the news and pictures. But you know what – I have over 300 likes and 250 comments on a single picture in the album alone! So the outpouring of love will always outweigh bigotry and hate that people may have. That is what I choose to focus on while I go through life and just live to be the best example I can be so hopefully people’s ideas will change on the subject.
just wanted to say a huge thank you for your post. as a gay man who grew up in a religious household it has taken me forty years to stop believing there is no point to my life as i am damned before i even die. thank you.
I am proud to be a Christian and I try to live by God’s Word as much as I can, but I am not perfect. Similiar situation: I have a FB friend whose posts I found offensive. Instead of gay/lesbian images/comments (and I see those too), the images were if darn near naked women. I couldn’t take it anymore, so instead of defriending him, I modified our “friendship” so that he does not “show in my news feed”. I have another friend who defriended him for the same reason. I have been defriended and didn’t know by whom so I applaud the preacher for at least having the courage to tell you why he could no longer be your friend. If you want to live by the Word of God, you will likely lose some friends; that’s alright, people hated on Jesus too, just like many of these comments are hateful toward that preacher. God is love, so true!! Does having agape love mean that I have to accept your lifestyle or allow you to offend me? Where does it stop? I have done the same thing to my aethist friend, who wast constantly bashing God’s Word, taking whichever scripture fits whatever he was spouting at the time and taking it out of context. I still love him as a son of God and friend, but I won’t allow his personal views to offend me any longer. I love myself more than that!
So sad to proclaim to be a Christian and a follower of Christ; but yet to to have absolutely no fruits to support that claim; Having Agape love does not me that you have to accept what you believe is a lifestyle that offends you; however, it does mean that you do have to love the person. Apparently you missed all the verses on that. My question is, doesn’t the Bible say to follow peace after ‘all’ mankind? But I guess you missed that verse too. Maybe you need to spend some time actually reading about Christ’s love for and less time posting about being a Christian when your life and very own words contradict that; no wonder so many people are leaving the church these days. I’m a Christian and a minister and am ashamed to even be associated with ignorance like yourself.
Jay White are you referring to me as being ignorant yet you know nothing about me, my walk with God or my relationship with people; how I treat them or love them? Tell me, that last sentence, where is the love in that minister?
I don’t unfriend athiests who argue with me on face book. I love a good arguement and some of my friends and relatives who are Christians in name only think I usually win. If anything the athiests who want to argue usually unfriend me. Also like you, I have unfriended a few people whose posts are either full of profanities or naked people in compromising positions.
KievJoy, I did not unfriend either of them; I modified my settings so that their offensive posts do not offend me on a daily basis. I try to watch what I allow to influence me (images, words, people) and it’s better to not allow the offending image into my mind rather than trying to get it out. I did not unfriend them because I still like/love the person; oh and yes, I shared Jesus with the aethist, he is in a tough transition in his life and has decided he no longer believes in God. I have prayed for him and even told him so, he thanked me and we talked about it both on his wall and in the inbox. I may not agree with someone’s behavior, but I love God’s people, simply because I love the Lord and He is love!
Sorry Gloria, that wasn’t meant as a criticism, but of a statement of how I do things. The ones I unfriended because of sexually explicit pictures I did ask not to send them to me so what did they do, thought it funny to actually post them on my wall, not on the open page only. They though are the only ones I’ve unfriended, I think.
Turning my back on anyone is never the answer. Living my life the way Jesus described the two greatest commandments that superseded all other commandments does not allow the turning our back. Four of my Christian brothers and I saved the life of a homosexual who was being stoned to death in a Muslim country at the risk of our own lives. So if you think judging the Christian as all bad maybe you should look at your own Predjudice view. I love the simple view that all my bros. and sisters are to be equaiiy loved no matter what. Including those who committ horrible crimes. Inside each one is a beautiful humanbeing that has been twisted. They must be seperated from society to protect us from them but inside all is a creation of God and must be never forgot. I live my life as Christ taught as close as possible. So people can judge as they see fit but they are better off because I do. LOL
Hi Darrell,
Thanks for your comment.
You are absolutely correct that I must look closely at my own judgement of my erstwhile friend. I have tried to do this and will continue to do so. However, I don’t think I said too much negative about him, per se, in the essay. I actually mentioned a number of qualities about him that I find admirable. I did refer to him as a misguided soul, and that is certainly MY take on things, and could be called a judgement.
The main point though, really, was the pain of rejection. The teeny tiny taste of rejection that I received from someone I wasn’t that close to to begin with. The briefest glimpse of what it might be like to be rejected by someone because of who you are.
I’m not likely to ever know that pain the way many LGBTQ people have, and for that I am grateful.
By the way, I have many lovely Christians in my life who vehemently support LGBTQ rights. The two positions are in no way mutually exclusive.
Thank you for your commitment to see the good in people.
Peace,
Dave
Isn’t it interesting just how many people use religion as an excuse for bigotrt and only pick the parts if it that agree with the opinions they already have?
That reminds me of this Susan B. Anthony quote: “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
“The Holy Bible speaks out against homosexuality and speaks highly of Holy matrimony between a man and a woman. ”
Actually, the Bible doesn’t define marriage, in terms of number or gender. Betty Bowers shows us that.
And the Bible ALSO speaks out against judgment and condemnation, and FOR tolerance, love, and acceptance. Seems the Bible-thumper missed those lessons
“The Bible doesn’t define marriage in terms of number or gender”. Liar or ignorant? Let me quote Jesus for you from Matthew 19:4, ““Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” There’s the number (2) and the genders (male and female). Not Adam and Steve, but Adam and Eve. To quote what God has declared is not intolerant or judmental. Intolerant or judgmental is to judge someone’s skin color or on how their dress and judging someone’s intentions such as many of the commenters on this site automatically assume about followers of Jesus.
It bothers me most when I see ignorance on FB or anywhere else posted by someone with an innocent child in a profile pic.
And of course anyone who does not believe what you believe is obviously ignorant. What a sad personal attack. That’s normally how those in the wrong proceed. So childish.
You’re quite right, Andy, the Bible DOES define marriage in terms of gender, and also in terms of number. Jacob, the father of Israel, God’s chosen nation, had two wives. Solomon, the wisest man supposedly on Earth, had 700 wives and 300 concubines. David, a man “after God’s own heart,” had seven wives. Abraham was married to his half sister and had at least one concubine. So even if the Bible does prescribe heterosexual monogamy in some parts, the Bible has an incoherent definition of what marriage should be, and it’s inconsistent with what most anti-gay Christians think marriage should be (ie monogamous, non-incestual, etc). Your argument is invalid. You say that “to quote what God has declared is not intolerant or judgmental,” but unfortunately, it’s extremely unclear in the Bible what God HAS declared, first of all, and even if it was, the effect of people being anti-gay would still have the same effect on gay people’s lives (not being able to get married, experiencing discrimination, etc) and it makes no difference if they have judgment or intolerance in their hearts: they are hurting gay people all the same, whether they mean to or not. Perhaps it is out of ignorance more than bigotry, but that makes no difference. It is still inexcusable.
Nice attempt but don’t confuse what the Bible records with what God declares! Slippery slope there but I know you have no respect for the Word of God – just trying to win a case. The New Testament testimony is clear that God considers homosexuality an abomination right up there with incest and beastiality. If you don’t like that fact, take it up with the Author (You know, God…), not me!
Where in the NT does Jesus say that God considers homosexuality is an abomination. I can’t find where it mentions it at all. Paul says about men having sex with men, not men who love men. Having worked in an HIV clinic, I know for a fact there is a BIG difference.
Do you think all the “men who love men” are just holding hands out there in the world? I think not. (I’m not even sure what you are going on about but it obviously somehow seems very important to you as you already made this unclear statement. I guess you really want us to know that you worked in an HIV clinic.) The Bible declares in several parts of Scripture that homosexuality is an abomination. Every word of the Bible is inspired by God. (You just had to make me break out the scriptures, huh?!) “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” (2 Timothy :16)
No, Andy, you are very confused about the “all knowing”…if God is all knowing, and the old testament is God’s word…or God inspired…and then, you guys back track by saying those laws (or the ones you want to forget ) are conveniently struck down by Jesus showing up. So…God made mistakes in the old testament and had to back track???? this is insanity. And if NOT, and it is God’s word…then, if you eat shrimp…you’re done for. If you wear two types of cloth…goodbye. And that’s only the beginning of the INSANITY that is Leviticus that you want to quote constantly. So, Nope…your answer is…not correct at all…unless of course, you include ALL THESE VERSES. Now, one last thing…GOD SAYS……”THOU SHALL NOT KILL.” Are you out there constantly picketing every jail house where they are performing death sentences???? ARE YOU??? I really doubt it. Are you out there protesting against the NRA, and anyone who owns a gun, for protection…this pretty much ensures that they will go against GOD’S WILL which, as you state is an abomination. So….where do you get off just attacking Gay people?? It’s absurd.
inspired by god, huh? That’s a biblical hole you xcould drive a mach truck thorugh. and you did earleir, when you made the claim that Romans says people aren’t born gay. It certainly didn’t say that. you made it up, as so many have, placing your own beliefs right on top of the word of god. The context of romans is idolatry, not homsexuality.
A lot of people have indeed “taken it up with the author”, by praying to God about this issue in the hopes of a greater understanding. Of course you don’t like the answer they got because it doesn’t jibe with your fundamentalist interpretation that allows you to use 2000 year-old practices to continue to condemn.
All I can say is…thank you.
You’re welcome. Thank you!
Well said! As a Christian, I am sorry for how you were treated! My belief is God made each of us just as we are and loves us just as we are. I can NOT find it in my heart to believe that God thinks being gay is a sin. Throw whatever scripture verses at me you’d like. I believe is God’s love of all people. Congratulations to your brother and his husband! And thank you for sharing this beautiful sentiment.
Sounds sweet and rosey but you have violated Commandment #2 in “creating a god in your own image.” I believe God would never….My God would never….Maybe so, but it’s not the God of Israel/The Bible.
Replying here because I can’t reply to your post above…but Andy, you are incorrect in two comments:
Your first was – don’t confuse what the Bible says with what the Bible records. The Bible SAYS we can’t eat bacon. It SAYS men can have more than one wife. It SAYS we can own slaves. How are we on those?
#2 – Take it up with the author (you know, God?). God didn’t write the Bible – men did – EVERYONE knows that.
Jesus does not mention homosexuality or being gay (well the word wasn’t in use then in that context) anywhere in the NT.
Andy, for anyone listening, WON’T reply to these messages debuking his accusations…because he can’t. But, since above he has once again, quoted God and the commandments, then…I wonder how often he has picketed jails whenever a death sentence is carried out? I wonder how much he has spoken out against this major spitting in the face of god, by KILLING….the verse doesn’t say…They shalt not kill, except if you think you can. So…thisis a dumb argument and a broken record coming from you.
Absolutely right- I am Catholic, and I am firmly of this belief, too. Who are we to dare judge the love between two people? It’s a beautiful thing that should be celebrated.
I have misty eyes now, thank you. But seriously, thank you. Many years ago I myself was studying for the ministry. Life has changed a great deal since I came to terms with reality, and my sexuality. I am best friends with the mother of my children, and she and my partner banter like pals who have known each other forever. My three sons adore him.
But I don’t know if most of my extended family and siblings (five brothers and sisters) will ever truly be a part of this union. They are entrenched in the old morays of the Wesleyan church. I thought things were okay with my oldest sister until I got an accidental forward sent out to a bunch of people from her. It was all about how some religious leader somewhere was warning against allowing gay marriage, because soon states would then be required to teach this abomination in the public schools.
I was heartbroken. Not because of the contents of the forward. I’m used to that sort of ignorance, but because my sister, the sibling I was once closest to, had so little regard for who I am, and what is important to me. Though I supported her against religious arguments from our bible thumping brother turned preacher (I think he got his ordination through the mail.), I felt no support at all from her.
I sent her a reply. “Big sister, you know I love you. But I don’t think that email was meant for me.” What else could I say? I thought it best to keep it simple, and perhaps it would be enough. But her response was merely to say, “Little brother, I love you too. And no that email was not meant for you.”
Wow, not an apology, not even I’m sorry you accidentally received that. Family gatherings at my father’s or at the lake are devoid of all talk of my partner, and though they did meet my ex bf when I took him to her wedding (I thought we’d made progress) after three years I have yet to subject my partner to meeting them. Sad loss. Mostly for them.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) There it is. Clear as mud. But of course to actually believe in the Word of God and to actually quote it must be HATEFUL indeed….In this passage, the Bible acknowledge EX-homosexuals in the church. (“Such WERE some of you….not such ARE some of you.) That is just one example of how the Bible consistently teaches against homosexuality. (Plenty more if you want the quotes, but I’m guessing you don’t.) Those who come to a saving knowlege of Christ will turn away from this, as they would from other sins. It’s fine if you want to live such a lifestyle (or your brother) but don’t trick yourselves into thinking you are Christian or born-again. That’s the part that Christians such as myself take issue with. Taking what God has clearly recorded as outside of his design/will and telling us that it is in fact “good” is one of the most blasphemous things one can do. Of course if you have a gay brother or sister, believe that one “is born gay” and have no faith in the Bible, this all comes across as hateful. That’s not true, but go ahead and believe it – Just don’t twist God and His Word to fit certain lifestyles.
Andy, no one was ever argued into the Kingdom. As a Christian brother, I’m humbly asking you to save it for another time. The essence of the blog is about love and respect.
Nikolas,
That is what liberal church goers (but not born again believers) always say. “You’re right but THIS is “not the right time/place/words.” Have I said anything hateful here. No. I’ve simply pointed out the truth of scripture. “Have I now become your enemy for telling you the truth?” (Galatians 4:16) Seems so.
andybrown, perhaps you could simply dig around inside and find just a touch of humility. You just might be wrong. No matter how sure you are, you don’t have a monopoly on the truth.
Well, I tried. You may not be aware of it, but you write with a latent passive aggressive tone. Again, no one was ever argued into the Kingdom. They were loved into it. And actually, I don’t think you’re right. It’s quite ironic that you called the passage that you linked “clear as mud,” because it is actually one of the most contested in Scripture. I would proceed with caution before pulling excerpts and developing your own exegesis on it. Certainly on a blog like this. Take care, brother.
Andy, consider for a moment that God still may be speaking and perhaps God is speaking through this person and his brother. If you believe that God is living, consider that He may not have stopped talking 2000+ years ago. You are defining an a piece of scripture that was written and translated many times, through many lenses in a way that doesnt jive with the core message of Jesus, love. Jesus never spoke about homosexuality, ever. He did speak about love many times. But I forgive you and will pray for your heart to open just as this man’s has toward his brother and his brother’s partner. Carrying judgement around is a heavy burden, I hope one day you can be brave enough to lay it down.
Matthew 7:3 Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Romans 2:1-2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
Indeed. It is not our place to judge others- that is God’s prerogative. Also, Jesus said “Love your neighbour with all your heart…”, and the golden rule we teach CHILDREN: “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. If you dare tell gays that they are sinners, you do not belong to the Christian church. True Christians practice love and tolerance, and that is not showing either to your fellow man.
By the way, ToonForever, I can always be wrong. Of course. But God’s word will never be proven wrong. God is not like a man who changes his mind and Word. “Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” (Romans 3:4) You want to talk about truth. Here’s what Jesus said about the Truth: “Sanctify them by the Truth; Your word is truth.” (John 17:17) Many that oppose the simple truths of God’s word (plenty on this page) play the part of Pilate (You know, the guy who had Jesus crucified…) in asking “What is truth?” (John 18:38) (as if it can never truly be known)
You are quoting Paul not Jesus. Jesus never said anything about same sex love though He did heal the Centurions lover with out comment on the relationship because of his faith. Paul was a fanatic and hater who did almost as much as Constantine to corrupt what Jesus taught. Gays are born created by God and frankly only someone so lost in their prejudice can discount the medical and scientific opinions that say so. Remove the beam from your own eye….
At least you have the “decency” to admit you don’t agree with Scripture. You call yourself “Rev. Tom.” Reverend comes from the word “revere” – to fear and show respect toward (God of course), which you obviously do not in trashing Paul, one of the strongest convents to Christ and great writer/vessel of many of the New Testament letters. Romans 1 clearly shows that nobody is born gay and that it’s absolutely wickedness to God. If you don’t believe it, fine, but don’t say you’re a Christ follower. By the way, you are ridiculous to suggest that the Centurion’s servant was his lover.
Paul said men who have sex with men, not men who love men. Having worked in an HIV clinic, I know there is a BIG difference.
first All scriptures are inspired by God(not an old man in the clouds but God the Inefible Light, the prime cause, the Tao, The Awen, Brahman etc.) and corrupted by the human filters it came through. The Christian scriptures written down decades after Christ’s Ascension from an oral traditions filtered through the individual disciples understanding of the teachings then 300 years later at Nicea a group of bishops picked by the pagan emperor Constantine waded through an untold number of texts and pick which ones were acceptable to the masses(uneducated public) for the new state religion. Those texts then were held and copied and translated by minions of the Holy Roman Empire on and on. The Bible and infact all other sacred texts are guide books and none are the verbatium word of God and it takes only a clear look at human history to verify that. Indeed the Jews do not consider all of the Torah ( Old testament) to be the literal word of God, some is history, some is prophecy, some is inspired teaching.
I know many main stream ministers that hold Paul in as low esteem as I do. I didn’t know he was a convent though “romans 1 cleary shows…” now who’s bring ridiculous ? Homosexuals have and do exist in every time,culture, ethnic and theological group no matter how viciously homophbic. Who would chose that?
The word that a patriarchal homophobic church translates as servant is “pais” here is an excerp from an article by Jay Michealson and you can find more by googleing it;
“But, some people argue, what about the fact that the only sanctioned relationship in the Bible is between a man and a woman? Well, in fact, that’s not quite the case. The story of the faithful centurion, told in Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10, is about a Roman centurion who comes to Jesus and begs that Jesus heal his pais, a word sometimes translated as “servant.” Jesus agrees
and says he will come to the centurion’s home, but the centurion says that he does not deserve to have Jesus under his roof, and he has faith that if Jesus even utters a word of healing, the healing will be accomplished. Jesus praises the faith of the centurion, and the pais is healed. This tale illustrates the power and importance of faith, and how anyone can possess it. The centurion is not a Jew, yet he has faith in Jesus and is rewarded.
But pais does not mean “servant.” It means “lover.” In Thucydides, in Plutarch, in countless Greek sources, and according to leading Greek scholar Kenneth Dover, pais refers to the junior partner in a same-sex relationship.”
Finally What does Jesus teach: Love God with all your mind, heart and soul and second only to this is love your neighbor as your self upon these two hang all the law and the prophets i.e. if you are not acting in a loving way you are not acting in a Christian way!!
Love one another not as the world loves but as I love you i.e. unconditionally.
Judge not…
Remove the beam from your own eye before you try to remove the speck from your brothers i.e. we each have enough work to do on our selves without finger pointing at others flaws.
What ever you do to the least of these that you do unto me.
You would do far better to help in a soup kitchen, to visit the sick and the elderly, and do charitable works then to interfer in others loving relationships because of your misguided understanding of your faith.
You are in no position to judge my relationship with Christ just your selfrighteous arrogance makes you suspect in my book. As St Oran said “the way you think it is may not be the way it really is at all.
Matthew 19:10-12 “The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”” It seems here that Jesus believes that celibate transgenderism is the highest earthly lifestyle. If we accept this at face value for how it is written without deviating from its plain meaning, then all major Christian churches have twisted your God and his word to fit certain lifestyles (i.e. active heterosexuality, heterosexual matrimony).
It seems like an absurd result, but only because it is all obscured by two millennia of human interpretation and speculation built on translations of shifting norms of appropriate human conduct. what this tells us is that when we presume to know perfectly what an infinite infallible god has said and what its earthly messengers meant in a language and context at least two or three languages and millennia removed from present, we ought to tread lightly with a certain level of humility about our certainty on the matters. “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge?” -God (Job 38:2)
It’s interesting how some Christians focus only on what they percieve as the ‘homosexual’ component of this verse. I don’t see the same level of rejection, discrimination and stigma being placed against fornicators, adulterers, covetors and revilers etc. For some reason, gay folk are targeted for extra special attention from those proclaiming righteousness for being straight. For goodness sake (literally)…even paedophiles, murderers and rapists are allowed to get married!
Simply put “There are many paths to God!”
Ruby
Jesus said, “I AM the way, the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) I’ll take Jesus’ word over yours and peoples like Oprah Winfrey anyday. 😉
to Andy “Jesus is the Way…..” yes the example of His life. Christians are not called to worship Christ as much as to live the example of His life. You obviously do not. Yours is a theology of fear and judgement and I am finding it very difficult to keep my replies civil to your ignorant comments.
If Jesus were here today He would not recognize you as one of His!!
It’s the andybrowns of the world that make me remember to do whatever I have to do to spend eternity as far away from people like him that I possibly can.
Don’t worry, you shall get you wish. Just keep doing what you’re doing.
Sorry to put this on your post John, but I can’t find the post your replying to. I’ve looked everywhere and can’t find where Jesus says nor effeminate. I’ve found the bit with that long list, but can’t find nor effeminate in it, can you.
Hey Andy,
Thanks for stopping by and commenting. It seems clear that you are a man of strong faith and strong convictions.
I am curious, do you take every passage in the Bible at literal, face value? For example, both OT and NT explicitly condone slavery, which I think we can all agree is a pretty bad idea. I would like to hear your thoughts on that.
Peace,
Dave
I just want to add my voice to the chorus of thanks!
You are an awesome brother! Thanks for writing this poignant and touching article.
Congratulations to your brother and his husband and here’s wishing them all the very best and happiness in their lives.
Hugs from Malaysia! (yep, that’s how far your article has gone to!) 🙂
♥
Thank you. Yeah, you really get it. I did get letters from my family that explained, mostly politely, when I got married that it really was not ok. They loved me, but that love did not include support, acceptance, and certainly not advocacy or willingness to stand witness to what was for me at that time, a vital milestone in my life.
3 came. I have a BIG family. My marriage did not last. But my hope in love remains. WHEN I get married again, I will be wiser in who I ask to share that sweet day. I may not be as desperate for inclusion in family rituals, but when it happens, it MATTERS.
You are pulling at the margins of so many on the outside. THANK YOU THANK YOU
I just want to say that not only is this a lovely article but the comments on it make me happy. Not only do they seem to be free of sniping, choosing to present well thought out and for the most part non condescending debate, but there are quite a few comments from Christians that truly remind me that religion is suppose to be a force for good. I am agnostic and it always makes me happy to see religions presented without the focus on hate as almost all religions are based on concepts that are meant to be meaningful, fulfilling, and positive. I just don’t see many articles like this without tons of name calling in the comments, by both sides, and it was a pleasant surprise.
If a hetro couple sleep around they are considered sluts, slags etc, but not if we’re married, why shouldn’t gay people have that same right. The Bible says about men who have sex with men, the same as it speaks of hetros committing adultry, nowhere does it say men who love men is wrong. Why shouldn’t they have the same rights as us. To marry and live happily ever after (well in most cases)
Reblogged this on The Pinoy Babbler and commented:
This made me sad but so happy at the same time.
Sad that there are still people that are so close-minded. People who “believe” that we must never hurt others yet effortlessly inflict pain in the hearts of those who do not belong to their concept of “normal.”
But this made me so happy because of the thousands that say all the bad things about being gay, there will always be that one person who will tap your shoulder and make you feel that there is nothing wrong with you.
I think the Christian Bible was pretty clear that Jesus was against marriage in general. Mark 12:24-25: “Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” Or Matthew 19:10-12 “The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
The fact that the Catholic church decided to get involved in the civil institution of marriage and property relations a thousands years after Christ died and together with many of its Protestant offshoots continues to attempt to control this civil institution around the world, doesn’t mean that Christ distinguished between gay or straight marriages and deemed one holy and the other not. If you feel offense at “holy” being used for gay marriages and not straight marriage, your feeling of offense is not consistent with Christian scripture.(Oh and as for Paul, let’s not forget 1 Corinthians 7:8: “Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.”)
If the Christian Church can take Christ’s message of sexual asceticism and justify “holy matrimony” for non-celibate straight people on the basis of the chastity of marital fidelity, I fail to see how such a basis is only limited to heterosexual couples.
Strange, I thought Jesus first miracle was at a wedding. Being Jewish it would have been a religious ceremony
There was no legal, political or religious continuity between the Jewish priesthood of Christ’s time or the subsequent legal, political and religious ascendancy of the Catholic church in history. Christ’s followers were fishermen and carpenters, not priests, and were on the margins of Jewish and Roman society. Christ also dined with tax collectors and had his feet washed and cleaned by a prostitute. It doesn’t follow that he supported Roman taxes or prostitution.
By the way, in case anyone hasn’t seen my other postings, I agree with gay marriage.
These are beautiful words, my friend.
For those Christians out there who condemn people for being gay and more-so for being married, and even possibly telling them that they will “go to hell” for that kind of act — while I understand why you’re upset and offended about gay marriage, just think about how many people are out there who has different religions and beliefs than you. Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, and other people who do not share the same sentiment as you don’t condemn you if you’re eating meat or doing something considered as “offensive” in their religion. They mind their own business. Why can’t you at least give other people that, too?
I mean, some of the gay people who get married may be Christians as well but let them follow Christ the way they understand it (and by ‘it’ I mean the Bible and/or the religion).
John 8:7 says, “So when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Let us not condemn other people for being in love with the same gender when we ourselves have sinned. Sure, some of us may be criminals, some may have just lied once or twice, some may be gay, but a sin is a sin. In the end, it would be really nice if we can just respect each other, really.
being gay is not a sin! God made us this way!
God doesn’t make people ‘imperfect’ in man’s eyes then condemn them. I agree with you Evangeline. God made Gays that way.
Briliant thank you
This is great. Thank you for sharing your perspective and for challenging others to examine their own.
It is true that we should all love each other first and foremost, and I don’t agree with your former “Facebook Friend’s” way of communicating his differences. But loving one another doesn’t always mean approving of one another’s actions, especially if those actions lead them away from Jesus. The truth is that Jesus should always be the center of every marriage. That is what marriage is anyway, union between man, woman, and God.
Coming from somebody who formerly thought they were gay for 10+ years, my heart definitely goes out to anybody who struggles with homosexuality, as many do. What I’ve come to realize though, is that just because I was attracted to men, that doesn’t define who I am. The world tried to define me as that, but God created love to be between man and woman, and deep down that’s always what I’ve wanted. Human kind has twisted love to fit whatever they want. Child molestation and rape could be argued as forms of love (and no I’m not comparing homosexuality to rape). I’m just saying all sinful desires are equal, but that doesn’t mean we should follow what our flesh wants. A man lusting after a woman is no less a sin than a man lusting after a man.
Now, this is obviously coming from somebody who believes in the teachings of the bible. I don’t think I’m better than anyone. Everyday I’m faced with sin and have to choose what my flesh wants or what God wants, and though I still fall constantly, I’m always striving for a closer relationship with Jesus and to live a better life. And at the end of the day, that’s what really matters in life. It’s not just about love and being happy. It’s about giving thanks and praise to the God who created us, gave us life, and promised us life after death even though we constantly defy Him, and spreading His love, the love He intended, to others.
Hi Brandon, Thanks for continuing to post with our site. It is good to get a mix of ideas. I hope you read the Bible more carefully as you seem to have been directed by things not in it. Nowhere does it say that Jesus should be the center of marriages, in fact, He made some startling statements about abandoning one’s family for Him.
Your analogy about rape and child molestation as being forms of love is also way, way off base. Neither is a form of love..they are forms of violence…PERIOD.
I get that you loathe your own same-sex attractions and hope you come to terms with that. Your sense of lust is also a little off base as well… lust is a requirement in sexuality. If a heterosexual man does not lust at all, he cannot do what is required to procreate. it is not a sin…it is a necessity.
Hetrerosexuality and homosexuality are equally amoral. They can be used to love and bond, or for selfish and potentially abusive pleasure. One of them is not morally superior to the other. I get that you have personal reasons for making that so, but it just isn’t.
Thanks again for your participation.
“Child molestation and rape could be argued as forms of love (and no I’m not comparing homosexuality to rape). ”
No they can’t and yes you are.
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Reblogged this on okeaynigel.
I don’t know who you are but I think I just fell in love with you. What a wonderful man you are and how eloquently you write. Thank you for this. You give hope to those (like me) who’ve felt abused and scarred from past wounds.
. As a married gay woman I cherish families like yours, who celebrate life. As an ordained minister in the UCC, I am encouraged by your affirmation that he and his husband are like all of us, created in the Divine image
You are a wonderful brother. Thank you for seeing with the eyes of love. My daughter is gay and I am so proud of her. I want the world to be a better place for her.
I’m so proud of you! You and your brother are very lucky to have each other. I hope your parents are as supportive as you are!!
Hello all,
A nicely written piece, to be sure. I must admit, however, that as a Christian I am painfully wrenched by the words of that Baptist “friend” — especially considering that he is described as being a pastor. Jesus was a homeless man who hung out with lowlifes and societal pariahs. His entire message focuses on love and the inability of man to reconcile himself to God. So it must be said, because many have forgotten it: Christianity is not defined by Christians or pseudo-Christians. We all, as humans, cheapen the name of Christ when we take it on. The pastor’s words simply do not jive with Jesus’ teachings: “I’m only defriending you so I don’t have to look at your anti-God stuff anymore…nothing personal!” Imagine if Jesus had a Facebook and defriended everyone who had anything “anti-God” going on in their lives. He would have no friends. Nothing personal!
The only thing that I can agree on with the pastor is his discomfort with the word “Holy” being applied to homosexual unions. I am always in the works of adapting my views and listening to others, but I have yet to hear a persuasive argument which can conflate homosexuality and Christianity. It is fairly clearly described as a sin throughout the Bible. I believe a heterosexual marriage can also be a sin when it is lustful, violent or selfish. Of course, one is likely to disagree with me because we stand on different grounds. My definition of the words “holy, love, and marriage,” for instance, may not be the same as yours.
That said, I am not particularly interested in debating this topic, as it has been done ad nauseam and rarely ends well. I will try, however, to respond if someone writes a lucid and respectful response.
I would instead prefer to leave you with the words of Jesus, as recorded in Matthew 22:38-39: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Hi, I’ll try to be considerate, but I hope you understand that as kind as you were trying to be in your post, you were still calling me wrong or inherently sinful, and that hurts when you’re 16 (or any age, I guess). I know you said you didn’t really want to debate, but I have something written out that I just want you to hear.
The Bible does not address homosexuality as a psychological identity and state of being. And contemporary research shows that the verses do not make blanket condemnations in their original language.
There’s far too much information to go into in this post, but here’s a brief run-down: Leviticus refers to temporary purity restrictions placed upon the jews; in Corinthians, the word malakoi refers to morally weak individuals, and arsenokoita, an incredibly obscure word, most likely refers to economic injustice surrounding prostitution, as it is always listed in lists of economic sins in other writings. Some translators in the 1950s decided to combine these terms into “homosexuality” and “abusers of themselves with mankind.”
Romans is really the only verse that’s pertinent to the debate, but Paul cleary did not have modern day homosexuality in mind when he wrote it. He saw homogenital acts as a symptom of cultic activity, and at the time adult male-on-male sex carried social disapproval. Penetrative sex was a political statement, and a male who engaged in too much homogenital sex would lose honor, or, as some moralists believed, become infertile. Scholars believe this is most likely the “error” Paul could be referring to.
Moreover, one should also note that the term Paul uses to describe homogenital activity — para physin — is also used to describe God earlier in the letter. At best, he was confused by homogenital activity and saw it as counter to man’s natural place above woman, a concept that modern society has largely abandoned.
So it is incorrect and anachronistic to say that the Bible condemns homosexuality. Nowhere does it deal with homosexual identity and relationships, only homogenital acts. Several denominations have accepted this as official doctrine, and those that haven’t struggle forward to make progress. Christianity can be a hotbed for homophobia, but the argument behind it is surprisingly weaker than one would imagine.
Thanks for the reply, Jason. I have a lengthy reply to give to you, but I would prefer to do so e-mail to e-mail (you may reach me at sliced_sublime@yahoo.com). The major reason why I did not want to entertain such discussion on these boards is out of respect for the writer, as I believe they are tangential and actually superfluous to the essence of the post. Moreover, I am not interested in using this space to polarize fellow readers. I would rather that we find the points where we can unite. I simply want to re-express my woefulness about the pastor’s comments, and remind the audience that Christianity ought not be understood through the inadequacies of its followers.
Thanks!
Jason, I really appreciate. As a seminary student who used to view homosexuality as a sin, it is studies just like the one you present (in addition to relationships I built), that has helped me change my conviction. It’s funny, my conclusions are slightly different but have the same end. I’ve found that malakois (or malakoi?) means effeminate and the only other time it is used is in the Old Testament in reference to fabric. The interpretation ( I hesitate to use translation, bc it is an interpretation) to homosexual was a CULTURAL one made in 1958. That interpretation had never been made before (as far as I know) and was made by on man whose name I cannot recall during that translation of a new version of Bible. Secondly, you are right about the obscurity of arsenokoitis (sp?). In fact, it does not even exist in the Biblical Greek language and was more than likely created by Paul himself. And then there’s the fact that there is NO Greek word for homosexual.
Nikolas – like Anna’s comment below, I know you mean well, but this is still pretty offensive. Please see my comment to her, as well as Jason’s. You’ve got to take off the filter for a minute and try and understand how your words look to someone who doesn’t buy in to your religion.
Just read it. Would you mind being more specific about what offends you? It is hard and nonsensical for me to respond in the abstract.
— And I mean about what I wrote. I know Anna and I share much overlap, but I would like to see what about my own post specifically offends (if that’s not too much trouble).
No problem at all, Nikolas –
It’s words like this: “Jesus was a homeless man who hung out with lowlifes and societal pariahs. His entire message focuses on love and the inability of man to reconcile himself to God.”
The obvious implication being the equivocation of homosexuals with all the other lowlifes. I’m sorry you “disagree” that homosexuality is an acceptable way to live, but you’re not really helping the conversation when you imply that you wouldn’t defriend him because you, like Jesus, love hanging out with the lowlifes.
Further, you take homosexuality as a symptom of a person’s inability to reconcile himself to god. That’s an unfortunate stance. While it’s couched in fine words, it is still an insult and a rather condescending assertion. It also betrays a lack of understanding of the nature of their attraction to their own gender. Assuming you are straight (which term I despise, btw) I would urge you and all Christians to understand that the way you are attracted to the opposite sex is the way they are attracted to the same sex. They’re not rebelling. They’re not making a choice. It is what they feel, what drives them inside, and they have no more power over which direction that lies than you do. I would urge you to consider that you don’t have a monopoly on what is right. Your version of the world is not by default correct. You may believe as you do, but you shouldn’t insist that others conform to your variety of belief. Nor should you assert that it is because they are flawed, or that their feelings are proof of their state of separation from god. It is unkind at the very least, and it lacks understanding.
Thanks for responding, sorry to get back so late. Like I wrote Jason above, I would prefer to handle things generally relating to homosexuality and Christianity via e-mail before they turn into mini books, but as I initiated this conversation with a question I will try to offer a curt response.
With regard to your first concern about me equivocating through “obvious implication” homosexuals with “lowlifes and societal pariahs,” I need simply to say that I mean no such thing. I may have poorly chosen my words, but those disciples who followed Jesus and were martyred are considered the Saints of the Christian Church; hardly lowlifes (unless you’re Ayn Rand, perhaps). They were only considered so in the society that they were a part of, that is, the Roman society. My only point is that Jesus is unconcerned about how great we think we are; we are all sinners and all “miss the mark” (the meaning of the word “sin”). Love doesn’t care for such things.
As for homosexuality as a “symptom of man’s inability to reconcile himself to God,” I believe everything in this life is such a symptom. In a Christian framework, if it were not so, we would all be perfectly happy, no? It is an imperfect universe and existence, full of tragedy, despair, sin and mystery. I am infinitely grateful for the mystery, because it makes life worth living. That said, I am not convinced that a homosexual relationship cannot be felicitous to a Christian idea of Love. But that is the topic for an e-mail, if you would like.
Thanks for writing this article. It is an important topic for our generation to understand, and exposure can only help open minds. Thanks to those who took the time to read my comments and comment back. Take care, everyone.
Hi Nikolas,
Thanks for your comments. For the record, I am THRILLED to see people using the comments section here as a forum for discussion and exchange of ideas. That is part of the point of publishing the essay in the first place.
You seem like an open minded person with strong faith, and so I offer you a challenge.
You said, “I have yet to hear a persuasive argument which can conflate homosexuality and Christianity.”
Here is the challenge: Don’t look for scriptural support or denial of the validity of a homosexual union. Meditate on Jesus. Meditate on two people who love each other desiring to make a lifelong commitment to one another. Meditate on Jesus.
Do YOU feel that He would approve?
Peace,
Dave
There is an aspect of this that has nothing to do with religion, spirituality, love of God or the human species. It can’t be because this man has a heart so full of dogma for the rules that a book say that he cannot tolerate pictures of people showing love to each other that are not what that same book purportedly states is the only acceptable love (a love in which the book of Corinthians proclaims is kind and patient.) When a person has this kind of a problem with love, he has fear-based issues. As it says in John 4:18, “There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.” You, my friend, are the kind of straight man I wish the world was full of. Thank you for showing your brother the kind of love that the Bible teaches us how to show.
My sister is also gay, and she is in a committed relationship. (Gay marriage isn’t legal here yet, but they did have a ceremony in the UU church 15 years ago.) We’re just glad she found someone who could put up with her! LOL But seriously, I call her partner my sister-in-love. Our three brothers have been married a total of SEVEN times (so far), while my sister and I have been married (in name or in fact) only once each. Maybe that should tell people something about the “sanctity” of marriage. Our family has been more accepting than that of my sister-in-love, but they’re finally starting to come around. As for me, I’ve been straight but not narrow for years!
Awesome post. As a gay man, and as a good human being, I thank you. Your brother, and brother-in-law, are lucky to have you as part of their lives.
Gay is the new interracial marriage. Haters gonna hate, and its sad that they forget their dogma is supposed to be about love.
Beautiful words! And good for you for letting the man go, even without curses! People should be free to love who they love, and marry them if they choose. People are using an ancient document to back their fear, and that is NOT okay. Kudos to you! And thank you for sharing! I wish your brother and his husband all the love and happiness that life has to offer for many, many years to come!
I may not be gay (I’m transgendered) and yes this is a very sad tale that happens way way too often. My dad, my siblings, my children, my church and my community have all recently turned against me. Twenty-eight years ago my girlfriend accepted me as a trans-woman, then became my wife and a mother to my seven children. After a twenty-three year marriage she turned against me and took away everything I lived for. My story is different, I do not live in fear of haters, I’m suicidal because of what haters make me feel about myself. I guess what I want to say is your story made me cry and tells me it does get better. Thank YOU!
((((Hugs)))) Stefonknee Wolscht
It makes me want to cry, situations like this. I am an outright believer in Christ, so not only does it sadden me to see people who claim to follow my God behave in such a hateful way, but….talk about wanting to hurl expletives….. There’s one specific passage in the first chapter of the book of Romans that gets consistently presented in a ‘Christian’ argument against homosexuality. What the presenters ALWAYS leave out (quite conveniently) is that ALL human flaws are described in that passage.
ALL of’em. As in, EVERYTHING. Hot temper, infidelity, impatience, etc. ad nauseum, et continuum.
Bigotry’s described there, in the verse immediately before homosexuality is mentioned. The entire point of the passage is that ALL human beings are flawed in one way or another. The writer wasn’t trying alienate and pick out certain groups. He was trying, pretty successfully, to explain that every member of the human race is screwed up on some level or another and we don’t have ANY grounds for a superiority complex. Pulling that verse out of context and using those words as a stick to beat other people with only serves to bolster the lie that Christians are holy under their own steam. Nothing could be further from the truth. And I am really sorry, sir, that you had to tolerate someone who chooses to ignore that fact. I am really really sorry.
*Sigh* – I know you’re well meaning, Anna, but I wish you could take off the Jesus glasses for a minute and see why this:
**What the presenters ALWAYS leave out (quite conveniently) is that ALL human flaws are described in that passage.
ALL of’em. As in, EVERYTHING. Hot temper, infidelity, impatience, etc. ad nauseum, et continuum.
Bigotry’s described there, in the verse immediately before homosexuality is mentioned. The entire point of the passage is that ALL human beings are flawed in one way or another. The writer wasn’t trying alienate and pick out certain groups.**
is so terribly offensive. Homosexuality is not a *flaw* like bigotry, ill temper, and infidelity, et cetera. It is not a *sin*. It is not a choice, like the actual flaws you list. It is how they are, period. If you believe in any god, it is how they are made. They can no more help it than they can help having blue eyes, brown hair, or big earlobes.
We don’t need to to accept them despite their *flaws* We need to accept them for exactly who they are and stop expecting them to deny how they feel and who they’re attracted to in order to conform to anyone’s particular exclusive religion.
Well Said!
Toon, perhaps this might put a bit more perspective on my opinion. I am in the field of psychology, ultimately pursuing my PhD in clinical. As a result, I have a somewhat different opinion regarding homosexuality than most overt believers. I’m well acquainted with the biology behind it, and just for the record, THAT STUFF IS SO COOL. (grins)
However, I don’t know very many believers who see it as a biological birthright, and having lived in the Bible Belt all of my life I have watched otherwise good people, over and over again, resort to out-of-context scripture to protect themselves from something they do not understand. There’s nothing I can do to prevent them from creating that…division…no, rift would be a better term…. but if the entire line of thought gets thrown back into context it will first offend and second (hopefully) open a door for a possible change. That’s WHY I presented the statement in the manner that I did. I don’t like it when people who claim to represent my faith pick and choose their truth. It’s wrong. On so very many levels.
And also, THANK you for your honesty! I love being able to discuss hard stuff in a blunt, open manner. So cool.
Well said, Sir! 🙂
Love wins, period. Beautiful!
I’m a Christian and I think that the Bible is clear as mud about this issue. Sure there are several places that say horrid things…but those same passages say horrid things about all sorts of stuff! Ok, I’m getting upset, but in reality the truth is that a lot of Christians have no idea how to love. It’s a gut wrenching, heart breaking, makes-me-wanna-give-up reality. I hate it and I am sorry. Deeply and truly sorry from the depths of my heart for the pain that any person has suffered through the mouths and actions of Christians. I feel as though Jesus is saddened by their actions as well since he told us to love first. Please Christians realize this, we thought we were right during the crusades, we thought we were right during the witch hunts, we think we are right now. But we were wrong then and we are just as wrong now. Turn from your sins and repent to those you have hurt so deeply that the loving words of The Father now fall on deaf ears. Don’t go to the judgment seat with hate in your history. Fix it. Fix it now and help others see how to fix it as well.
Amen, sister.
Well said Sacha!
I wasn’t going to leave a response. I did post this on my Facebook because as a gay man who is married and has been for 4 years and together for 7 and don’t see myself with anyone else. He has been with me through the worst illness of my life and has stuck with me the entire time. (MS) He has dealt with the crazy mood swings and the angry side that i couldn’t control and still loves me today. I was married to a girl. It didn’t feel right. I could perform, but something was wrong. I know what it was. I have never felt like I do for anyone like I do for him. Anyways, sorry for the history lesson, but thank you both to the writer and to Sacha and to every other straight Christian that has come around to know the truth.
What a beautiful piece. You and your brother are so lucky to have each other!
I’m gay myself. Although I am Jewish, I have heard quite a few things about the your guys Bible says about marriage and that it personally say NOTHING about homosexuality being a bad thing. I feel that he did what he wanted to. Even though I disagree with it every bit.
A former colleague of mine sent me a link to this blog post. As a gay man with 26 years with my HUSBAND, I want you to know you lifted my heart while bringing a tear to my eye. Bless you for standing by your brother and for being a proper big brother to him.
My husband and I are doing our bit for gay marriage as well. You can read about it on our blog page here: http://www.marriedandcounting.com
Peace, Patnstephen
I’m gay, living with my partner of 4 years, and in that time I’ve probably seen my family a couple of times. They don’t like me because I am gay. They pretended to accept me, but then they turned their backs on me when I really needed them the most. My partner’s family has been a better family to be than my own has, which hurts me because I still love them and I miss them terribly. I don’t hate my family, I am very disappointed in how they’ve treated me but I don’t hate them. I pray every day that love will conquer all and reunite my family. Love is blind, love has no gender, love is limitless. Embrace love, cherish love, feel the love!
I am sorry your family is unkind to you and your partner. I hope they find love in their hearts and become worthy of your love and kind heart. God loves you!
Unfortunately, I am learning to live with it, although I shouldn’t have to. I feel for LGBTIQ people whose families outright reject them to their face, but it’s worse when they do it subtly, behind your back over time like my family did to me. They slowly distance themselves after initially being fake and making it look like they accept you. This is what really hurts, when you find out the love is really fake. I just wanna say to those who have experienced this that you are not alone – the pain may not go away completely, but it gets easier to live with. Stay strong and know that one day you will see a light at the end of the tunnel, and that there are people out there who know what you’re going through….
My baby sister is gay and she has met the most wonderful woman now I have two sisters and Natalie is all I have and I would stand up with her for the rite to marry April anyday and with anyone even my own family. It is her right as a citizen a human a taxpayer to marry whom ever she loves. I love u sis 4- ever.