Defriended Over a Wedding, a Straight Man Gains Perspective

Straight Man Perspective

My younger brother is gay. Gay as laughter. Gay as the day is long. One of the finest moments in my life, and one of the greatest compliments anyone has ever paid me, was the day he felt safe to come out to me. He’s in his mid-30s now, but he’ll always be my little brother. And man, I love that kid. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. And he just married a phenomenal man.

I was always predisposed to like his husband because, y’know, he’s my brother’s partner and therefore has automatic status in my heart. The wonderful bonus is that I really like him. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. He’s a cool dude to hang out with. He also stood by my brother like a rock when my brother had a life-threatening cancer that cost him his left eye.

They married in May. It was a wonderful ceremony in which I was honored to stand by my brother, supporting him in his vows. My eyes teared up like they always do at weddings. I had the joy of watching two people commit to a lifetime together. It filled my heart.

Folks started posting photos from the wedding on Facebook, and I proudly reposted photos of the ceremony (with me looking awesome in my new suit, of course). Shortly after that, I received this message from a FB friend:

“Hey David, I am removing you from my friends list…sorry man, that latest post is way over the top! Homosexuals joining in “Holy” matrimony…I don’t think so??? The Holy Bible speaks out against homosexuality and speaks highly of Holy matrimony between a man and a woman. It’s nothing more than a slap in the face to those who choose God’s Word, for homosexuals to join in a Holy marriage. I’m only defriending you so I don’t have to look at your anti-God stuff anymore…nothing personal!”

Wow.

This came from a man I used to work with. A man I respect in his dedication to his family, and in his desire to live a moral and ethical life. A man with whom I have had some very interesting religious debates. He has become a Baptist preacher since we last spoke in person, and I suppose that makes this message unsurprising.

But, I was still surprised. I was taken aback. I needed a moment. I was hurt.

I was inclined to hurl some expletives in his direction.

But, only for a moment. He’s not really that important of a person in my life. I had actually at times grown rather tired of his Facebook postings…I don’t have a great need for fundamentalist dogma in my day. So, on some level, good riddance.

I sent him a letter at his church, expressing my disappointment in his withdrawal. I had a few friends read the letter before I sent it, to make sure that it didn’t contain too much bile. I’m not surprised that I haven’t heard back from him.

The situation got me thinking: What if this hadn’t been about my brother’s wedding, but about MY wedding? What if it hadn’t been from a distant friend, but from a beloved family member?

Ouch.

How many millions of gay kids (and adults) have had that exact thing happen to them? How many millions more will in the future?

I’m sorry.

I’m sorry for that pain. I’m sorry for that rejection. I’m sorry for that isolation.

I’m straight. Straight as a yardstick. Straight as an arrow. I am in your corner. If I could take on that pain for you, I would.

I love you.

If you’re gay, I think that’s wonderful, and I’m truly happy for you. I wish you all the love and joy in the world.

If you’re straight, I think that’s wonderful, and I’m truly happy for you. I wish you all the love and joy in the world. And I charge you, I charge you to imagine the above scenario played out with YOU as the target of rejection. Imagine the people closest to you telling you, essentially, “You are fundamentally flawed and I want nothing to do with you.” Our LGBTQ brothers and sisters face this everyday. Please don’t forget that.

The poor, misguided soul is no longer in my life. That’s okay. My brother and his husband still are. I just hung out with my brother a few weeks ago, and it was a blast. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. I couldn’t be prouder to call him my brother. I love him, and love wins, period.

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Image by Ono Kono.

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About allydavidstevens

Husband. Father. Son. Brother. Uncle. Nurse. Aspiring Kung Fu Fighter.
This entry was posted in Civil Rights, Family, Living, News, Politics, Prejudice, Religion, US Politics and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

1,646 Responses to Defriended Over a Wedding, a Straight Man Gains Perspective

  1. Dani's avatar daniheart21 says:

    Powerful post. Thank you for being a nice human being. 🙂

  2. If your Church chooses not to perform a wedding ceremony for whatever reason, that’s their prerogative. BUT, neither that Church nor its members should have any say in whether a legal marriage can be performed.
    So butt out of State affairs, Church, you tax-exempt, dirty-minded busy bodies !

    nb: not all churches and their members are dirty-minded busy bodies. That was directed at the bad apples.

  3. lyrikengel's avatar lyrikengel says:

    Please don’t lump all Christians into the same category as someone saying they are Christian and getting it so wrong. Love does win out. learned that from Jesus. May God bless all of you and I pray that their ignorance doesn’t close your heart, only then do they win.

  4. Bill's avatar Bill says:

    The saddest of all here, is that your fellow LGBT human beings have come to EXPECT this sort of treatment from heterosexuals.

    It doesn’t really even phase us any longer. You have largely convinced us that this is who you are in your hearts.

    We EXPECT to be treated as sub-human by the very people who created every single one of us.

    Sad.

    But even sadder for heterosexuals. Holding such darkness and contempt for your own offspring just isn’t natural or moral.

  5. Jeff's avatar Jeff says:

    I feel it is wrong for some to judge based on the Bible and what it says! Mainly because it also states that it is wrong for a person to see the splinter in another’s eye, when you have a log in your own, something in those words anyway. The Bible (Jesus/God) says do not judge, when it is right for anyone to judge another person. Another analogy used in the Bible is about not being the first one to cast a stone, especially when you live in glass houses. I am a Christian, I believe that God loves each and everyone of us the same, we are all sinners and none of ours sins are larger than the others, because sin is just that; Sin! I have a difficult time with anyone being Gay and a Christian, not because it can’t happen…but because I am that person, just too afraid of being both. I do believe that Gay’s should be allowed to marry, I believe that love is just that…Love, and everyone should have that opportunity to love and marry. If I could face myself, maybe I could allow myself to let go and look for love with the man of my dreams….but age is catching up with me and I know that it helps to be younger and good looking with a flat stomach and maybe a six pack. None of these things are obtainable anymore, and I was raised in a time that leaves me with reservations and fears of allowing myself to let go. I know God knows who I am, I know he loves me, maybe it has to do with me. But I am proud of you, for being the big brother mine never was or will be. The love you have given him will allow his marriage to prosper and grow and on and on. So blessed is your brother to have you in his life this way. Do not let anyone change you, don’t let anyone use “Religion” (which is not God, it is just what people refer to as God), to make you feel as though you are wrong in supporting your brother. God loves him, he loves you, and he loves that you are there for your brother. God Bless you for standing by him, and good riddance to that so-called friend. You don’t need anyone like that in your life anyway. Congratulations to your brother and his husband, may God bless their marriage for as long as they live.

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  7. Aaron Weston's avatar Aaron Weston says:

    You as much as your brother and his husband are true participates, the true patriot is yourself. Sanding up for what you know to be rgiht is never a c\nice choice, In a countrie as brainwashed as ours and patriot is a terrorist or against the Christian religions. A rough time for the new strive in equal rights for the minority that is most often overlooked but as long as you and the people like you have the near to stand up and say something I dare so to shall the closeted cases, the”secret” gays, or the “straights that like a little bromance,” It is time we all united it in a more just American, not only for the ones mentioned here but for ever straight, gay, brown, black and every other American citizen who worked hard for what they have and are willing to work hard for those who just can’t bring it about themselves to do so just yet, Feel free to contact me at a_weston_9228@stuedents,fortscott.edu. I plan to become more involved in my local chapters at FSSC and PSU university and am willing to put people in contact with people if need be. I a gay mail just getting around to getting my college degree, a male that has been in a relationship longer than any single straight couple that I know from person experience and I know it just takes a little metal respect and a little compassion. These two things go further than any parable from the bible based on Calvinistic twisting of Jesus Christs words will ever take you.

  8. LALO's avatar LALO says:

    You sound like Jesus, maybe kinda resemble him too (ever untie the ponytail?)

  9. Susie's avatar Susie says:

    Thank you! You don’t know how much I appreciate your kind words!

  10. Alice's avatar Alice says:

    Reblogged this on The Lost Girl and commented:
    I love this.

  11. Pingback: Defriended Over a Wedding, a Straight Man Gains Perspective | evoL = | Scotties Toy Box

  12. Tori's avatar Tori says:

    Wonder if “FB Friend” will unfriend all of his divorced friends…….all of his friends having sex before marriage…he may have no friends left in a few years.

  13. Whom someone falls in love with and/or marries is his or her business, no one else’s. Anyone who thinks different is a fascist in the exact meaning of the word, and anyone who uses private religious beliefs to justify prohibition of another’s preferences or private behavior has taken the first step on a path that starts with “unfriending” on Facebook and ends with burning women at the stake for being witches.

    • MaryLS's avatar MaryLS says:

      This is BS. Everyone has a stake in the nature of our social institutions. Gay marriage categorically denies the relationship between the institution of marriage and procreation and the the cycle of life. There is no marriage equality as hetero and homosexuality marriages aren’t equal. Two husbands cannot create a family. While many hetero marriages also do not beget children, the nevertheless conform to the symbol of procreation — a male and a female. Gay marriage changes a sacred institution into a Hollywood spectacle.

      • Dave-O's avatar Dave-O says:

        So if a woman is infertile, would her marriage to her husband be “less equal”: to everyone else’s because she is unable to reproduce? Or what of people who choose not to have children. Do their marriages mean less because they have chosen not to reproduce. Nonsensical argument to justify bigotry.

        • MaryLS's avatar MaryLS says:

          Infertile couples, etc. are not a problem because with the participation of a male and a female, they still represent the “potential” for life. From a social perspective, marriage does not require that we investigate the particulars of a couple’s intentions or ability to have children. As long as they are male and female, they still represent the prototype. Gay marriage, however, is unequivocal and emphatic in its intentions: marriage is NOT about procreation. This is a profound change to the point where it is difficult to ascertain the purpose or intention behind gay marital vows.

          • T Jay's avatar T Jay says:

            You are seriously misguided. I truly feel sorry for you.

          • MaryLS's avatar MaryLS says:

            The perspective I have on this issue is held by many people. We are not anti-gay. I support civil unions so that Gays are able to have the same benefits as married couples, but gay marriage simply destroys the concept of marriage. No need to feel sorry for me. Just recognize that everyone is not in agreement on the issue.

          • Unknown's avatar Ashley Cavey says:

            I believe the purpose or intent behind gay marital vows is the same as heterosexual ones: I love this person and want to be with them. Procreation is not the sole purpose of marriage, and if you haven’t noticed, marriage is hardly a prerequisite for having children and a family anyway. Welcome to the 21st century.

          • robw77's avatar robw77 says:

            Hi MaryLS, Thank you for the discussion. You present numerous fallacies as absolutes. Marriage has not traditionally been about procreation, nor has procreation been about marriage. Anti-gay forces have suddenly made that a “requirement” as the only factor they can hang onto in order to attempt to justify denying marriage to gay couples. The fact is that most same sex marriages DO “procreate” and have kids , without having to “make the kids” themselves. In fact, in many cases, our children are the biological products of heterosexuals who procreated in the most irresponsible of fashions and would have killed the children they created. The saddest part about your point of view is that it is completely devoid of heart and soul. We, all of us, straight and gay, are humans who love, nurture, family and bond. We are not “prototypes”. “Prototypes” are the first experimental robots they make in sci-fi movies, and then discard when they misfunction when the real deal comes along. Biblical marriage when a man raped a woman then paid her father for her… that was a failed prototype. Same sex marriage between two equal partners committed and loving? That’s the real deal. Thanks for your input.

          • MaryLS's avatar MaryLS says:

            Marriage has not traditionally been about “two equal partners committed and loving ”, nor has “two equal partners committed and loving ” been about marriage. (Much of this was Hollywood’s invention.) Also “most” (MOST???) same sex” marriages do not procreate. In truth, none do. I guess everyone is entitled to their own fallacies. And yes, the potential to procreate is the one factor that those opposed to gay marriage do put forward as a legitimate argument against gay marriage because it is the central factor. Heterosexual marriage and gay marriage are essentially different in kind. My argument is not devoid of “heart and soul”. I would not deny gays equal rights, which I think can be achieved with civil unions, but I think that there will be problems created for future generations as we try to alter the definition of a long-standing social institution that served an important purpose in creating social cohesion and begetting the next generation. As many have pointed out, when you change the definion of marriage as a union between a male and a female, you destroy its meaning. We now (at least in some places) have something new – who knows what it is.

          • Rick Bagnall's avatar Rick Bagnall says:

            “Infertile couples, etc. are not a problem because with the participation of a male and a female, they still represent the “potential” for life.” So…the couple at my church who are in their 80s and got married last year have the potential to procreate? Here and I thought the age of miracles was over.

        • lyrikengel's avatar lyrikengel says:

          actually if a woman was infertile, the husband could take another wife. Of course all infertility back then was the woman’s fault as well. Men could never be the reason.

  14. Mike Johnson's avatar Mike Johnson says:

    From your writings, you impress me as a very thoughtful, lovable and caring man. I’ll bet your brother, his husband and those who know you also value you for the person you are too.

  15. Sherman Hesselgrave's avatar Sherman Hesselgrave says:

    It’s funny how Christian zealots quote the Bible as if it speaks with one voice. Sure, you can pluck out a few verses that condemn same-sex behavior. However, context counts, and that is never taken into account. Here is another, completely valid, biblical viewpoint. Yes, it goes back before the creation of Eve in the book of Genesis, but it is extremely relevant to our modern conversation, and no one EVER brings it up. According to the Bible story in Genesis, when God realized that “it was not good for the man [Adam] to be alone,” God set about to create a suitable helpmate/companion for Adam. He brought several iterations of creatures to Adam, and Adam gave them names, but concluded they were not “suitable companions.” It was only then, that God does the whole rib-extraction thing, and Voilà, Adam finds Eve an acceptable mate. HERE’S the MAIN POINT: It was ADAM who got to decide who a suitable companion was, NOT God. So, here’s a question: Why do believers insist on doing the one thing God never did, dictating who constitutes a suitable companion for anyone?

  16. kate's avatar kate says:

    Thank you for your eloquent post. You have made a difference. I wish I didn’t have to congratulate you as well on your courage because it should be a simple and welcomed thing to say how much you love your brother and brother-in-law, but unfortunately we live in a crazy bigoted world where that isn’t always easy. To our LGBT and straight friends, hang in there… it’s slowly changing, respect will come.

  17. Ebony's avatar Ebony says:

    Love wins……you’re beautiful and amazing!

  18. Chris's avatar Chris says:

    I hope more people would think that way. In my case my parents don’t accept me, they are christian or at least say to be. If i’ve learned something is that a lie or kissing a guy is the same. God doesn’t care who you choose to love, God loves us no matter who we are or what we do.

    He doesn’t make mistakes and all of this has a purpose.

  19. Andy's avatar Andy says:

    Awesome blog post. The value of straight allies is invaluable in helping the LGBT+ community combat bigotry & hatred. There are lots of ppl of faith fighting bigotry in their communities. I’m fairly outspoken in mine, but also aware of the efforts of ppl like Matthew Vines (http://youtu.be/ezQjNJUSraY) & his Reformation Project, the NALT Project (http://notalllikethat.org/), & several other organisations such as Inclusive Church, Lesbian & Gay Christian Movement, Two:23, etc., etc..
    Hoping that the tide will turn sooner, rather than later, and incredibly grateful for the love and support of people like yourself. Thank you.

  20. Bob Amsel's avatar Bob Amsel says:

    After World War I, there was a rebirth of the Ku Klux Klan. Many of its leaders were Baptist preachers who used their bibles to justify their white supremacy and discrimination against blacks. The truth is that when you’re a hate-filled person to start with, you can use your bible to add fuel to your hatred. Losing such toxic people from your life is a good thing, as old Martha might say.

  21. Brandon's avatar Brandon says:

    I just want to say Thank You. I have been rejected by close family members. I was lucky to have a mother that was an incredible supporter like you are. It is an amazing thing to see unconditional love. Thank you

  22. 1smartcanerican™'s avatar 1smartcanerican™ says:

    I went to the best wedding ever this summer. My nephew and his partner got married. They have been together for 11 years, so it was time – and it was now law that they could marry. Unfortunately, his religious, fundamentalist parents, sisters, aunt/uncle and one of their kids refused to attend. This hurt my nephew and his husband, but it did not diminish the joy they shared with all the rest of the family and their numerous friends. This was the most joyous, loving wedding I’ve ever attended. This has obviously created dissention in the family, and I’m siding with the love and joy reflected in “the husbands’ ” commitment to each other. Kudos to you for supporting and loving your brother.

  23. susan's avatar susan says:

    A friend told me he was gay about a year ago, about the time i was falling in love with him. We r now best friend and almost inseparable, even holidaying together. It was the best thing that has ever happened to us. God bless all people with loving family and friends.

  24. Daniel Berry, NYC's avatar Daniel Berry, NYC says:

    Dude, you’ve got one big freakin’ heart. I’d be proud to call you my friend.

  25. Dominick's avatar Dominick says:

    Thanks for standing up for LGBT people. I’m transgender and I don’t have contact with my brother or my mother. They don’t ‘believe’ I’m really transgender. They’ve posted on social media sites I’m a fraud though I’ve been out and open to nearly everyone for going on 12 years. Not all families are as lucky to have you in them! Your brother must be so proud of you, too!

  26. Charles's avatar Charles says:

    The Bible has passages prohibiting tattoos (Leviticus 19:28) but the fake “Christians” don’t seem to worry about that. There are Christians who think it’s OK to pick and choose parts of the Bible – but nowhere does any Christian sect say that the Bible is a menu. If they’re so concerned about being Christian, let’s hear the hypocrit bigots talk about following ALL the Bible for a change.

  27. Chris Riley's avatar Chris Riley says:

    Leviticus 11 forbids man to eat anything from the sea that does not have scales and fins. This means things like oysters, clams and crabs… I have yet to see the people who are so against Gay marriage protest Red Lobster. Leviticus mentions this long before he talks about “a man laying with a man” so he obviously thought it was more important…

    • Anna Rose's avatar Anna Rose says:

      The common reply when this is pointed out to them, Chris, is that it’s the “Old” Testament that bans the eating of shellfish, and that the “New” Testament supercedes this. Funny, but I remember nothing in the “New” Testament that covers the eating of shellfish, pork and a nice helping of beef stroganoff (all taboo under the “Old” Testament). It’s that whole cherry-picking thing. Meh.

  28. Joe Ryder's avatar Joe Ryder says:

    All this because you lost a friend on facebook? People have died for their beliefs, and you’ve recorded a six minute video crying about your dwindling friend list? Grow up

  29. Lisa Lawless's avatar Lisa Lawless says:

    As a straight, married woman I agree with you wholeheartedly and loved your video. Bravo to you and what you are doing. I wrote an article a while back about why I believe the LGBT community deserve the right to marriage, check it out if you are interested-

    http://www.holisticwisdom.com/homosexual-gay-marriage.htm

  30. John Minck's avatar John Minck says:

    David, I’m an old fart at 82, married to the same woman for 57 years, but 100% in support of our gay brothers and sisters against the vicious hatred and bible based bigotry they face every day.
    Is there any way you could email me your physical mailing address, I’d like to mail you some on my letters and monographs I write to the Catholic hierarchy, etc?

    GOD WROTE HOMOSEXUALITY INTO THE HUMAN GENOME! Read Dr. Francis Collins book, Language of Life. Page 204. Collins is Director of NIH, co-manager of the human genome sequencing project, and a professed Christian.

  31. Thank you for this post! I hope you know that not all Christians share feelings or the interpretation of Scripture that your “friend” has. Here’s another way of looking at it…

    THE GREAT EQUALITY DEBATE Part 1

  32. Pingback: Straight Man Gets Emotional Over Gay Brother's Struggles After Wedding | Safe Schools | Desert Cities

  33. I’m so sorry that there are those who will forever be drawn to take away from a wonderful post with their negative comments. You are a wonderful brother, and a fine example of what family should be. Not just for LGBTQ members, but for all family members. We should all unconditionally love and accept one another in this family of humanity, respecting that none of us will feel exactly the same about any issue, but that if we speak lovingly and we accept that we all have the right to live our lives as we are born, true to our own nature and willing to learn from other’s experiences and wisdom without any want to bring harm to those we do not understand. Namaste.

  34. todd's avatar todd says:

    That was beautiful. Bordering on the sublime. Thank you.

  35. anon's avatar anon says:

    I just stumbled upon your blog post, and wanted to say “thank you” for sharing that experience.

    It’s sad that a lot of gay/lesbian people are afraid of doing perfectly normal things (like being happy about their wedding and sharing photos, telling colleagues, etc.) when those things tell the truth about their sexual orientation. In some countries, it’s even illegal to do that (like Russia). Even if it’s legal, a lot of gay people still hide anything related to their relationship. I don’t know, it just makes me sad. I wish every day was like gay pride (though all those drag queens would probably get annoying rather soon :D), where you can hold hands with anyone you like and no one is upset about it!

  36. It’s remarkable for me to have a web site, which is good for my knowledge. thanks admin

  37. darkmoonman's avatar darkmoonman says:

    Two decades ago, immediately after my soul-mate had died, a British ~friend~ and ex-coworker wrote to tell me in my grief that he had died because he had sinned against god, like a aprent corrects a wayward child. I wrote back to tell herer that today, in the enlightened West, we lock away parents who kill their children. I never heard form her again, and I’ve never missed that contact.

    • allydavidstevens's avatar allydavidstevens says:

      Ugh, I am so sorry that you had that experience. I pray that some day that outmoded belief will simply blow away in the wind and we can all just GET ON WITH OUR LIVES!

      Thank you for stopping by!

      Dave

  38. L waynesboro's avatar L waynesboro says:

    We are ALL in this together. How can so many people miss that point !!! Just substitute the word “gay” with your choice of one the following words: Jewish, Black, Female, Indian, Handicapped, Catholic, Poor, Mexican, an Immigrant, whatever fits your unique situation. Do you want everyone around you sticking their heads in the sand if you or those you love, where the target ?? People say it’s not their issue…it is!!! We all need to stand up and defend each other. I’m not black, gay, handicapped or any I listed, but, By God, I’ll stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone to defend their right to freedom, to love, to be respected, to be treated equal. Why would anyone not??

  39. I really found this post resonating with me because a similar thing happened to me, a friend I was mostly ignoring in his ludicrous right wing facebook ramblings- out of remaining loyalty to our once-upon-a-time friendship, kicked me out of his friend list for ‘gay propaganda’. I was told by mutual friends that he said he still liked me as a person but he just couldn’t deal with the contents of my wall.
    I was all: ‘Fuck you, maybe I don’t like you as a person anymore, asshole’ but mostly between hurt and pissed off at myself that I didn’t kick him out first. I intended to write a long and scathing PM to him, but then I cooled off and some time passed and I never did so I think the time for that has passed- and it’s not like we live in the same city, so we hardly meet. But yes, as much as it pisses me off it’s just a tiny bit of homophobia and biphobia that is out there daily. It’s hurtful and depressing, and hopefully some day it will be only marginal (because I hardly believe it will be gone entirely,There are prejudiced and bigoted people wherever and whenever.). In any case great post.

  40. Karen Tannehill's avatar Karen Tannehill says:

    Well written, and well said! Another straight ally, and proud mama of a wonderful lesbian daughter.

  41. Leroy's avatar Leroy says:

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  42. AaronChgo's avatar AaronChgo says:

    As a gay man, I must tell you that you are one of our greatest treasures as an ally. You are massively cool. I would be proud to have you as a brother, too!

  43. 77679's avatar 77679 says:

    Hi there, I discovered your website on http://evolequals.
    com/2012/09/03/defriended-2/ at the same time as looking for a similar topic, your blog came up, it seems good.
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  45. Donna's avatar Donna says:

    I just “unfriended my sister over her unwavering rejection of anyone that doesn’t fit her definition of “Correct”, be it skin tone or orientation. I just couldn’t take it anymore. I will still talk to her, but I will not go out of my way to do so or see her. Our parents raised us better than that and I’m heartbroken over this, but I Cannot put up with it any longer…

  46. Cathy's avatar Cathy says:

    This may be unpopular, but I think that the government should get out of the marriage business for good. Civil unions, with all the rights and privileges that marriage currently confers, should be what government grants to everyone – straight or gay. If people want a “marriage” they can go to whatever church or religious institution they hold dear, but “marriages” would NOT confer legal status or legal protections. That would keep the religious nut jobs from using religious dogma to keep gay people from having the same rights as straight people. Like removing the fangs from a snake. They can’t bite anyone ever again, no matter how hard they try.

    • allydavidstevens's avatar allydavidstevens says:

      I completely agree, Cathy. I think that logistically, at this point, it’s actually easier to gain marriage equality than to get the government out of the marriage business altogether, so that’s where I’m putting my energy. But again, I totally agree with you in theory.

    • djsaab's avatar djsaab says:

      I disagree. Marriage is a secular institution. It confers the legal protections and responsibilities, as you point out, that are administered by the state. It is deeply embedded in our legal system. Religious organizations already have an alternative label for marriage: holy matrimony. But the label is a distraction. It is not the label that antigay groups object to. It is the fact that gay people (“Those perverts!”) would be their legal equals. They would no more accept the label of civil union for their marriage than they would accept the label of marriage for gay couples.

      • Cathy's avatar Cathy says:

        But all the arguments they use against gay marriage are all religious. Take that shield away, then what do they have? I agree with allydavidstevens that the marriage infrastructure is so pervasive that this type of paradigm shift will never happen. I just wish it would.

        • MaryLS's avatar MaryLS says:

          No, all of the arguments are not based on religious convictions. The central argument, in my view, is that gay marriages undermine our archetypal understanding of marriage as a unit capable of procreation. A Judeo-Christian tradition is consistent with this understanding of the purpose of marriage (as are many other religious groups), but I think the concept itself transcends religion and goes to the essence of social structure. To the extent that archetypes are valid at all (and Jung would say that they are), gay marriage undermines these archetypes.

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