My younger brother is gay. Gay as laughter. Gay as the day is long. One of the finest moments in my life, and one of the greatest compliments anyone has ever paid me, was the day he felt safe to come out to me. He’s in his mid-30s now, but he’ll always be my little brother. And man, I love that kid. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. And he just married a phenomenal man.
I was always predisposed to like his husband because, y’know, he’s my brother’s partner and therefore has automatic status in my heart. The wonderful bonus is that I really like him. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. He’s a cool dude to hang out with. He also stood by my brother like a rock when my brother had a life-threatening cancer that cost him his left eye.
They married in May. It was a wonderful ceremony in which I was honored to stand by my brother, supporting him in his vows. My eyes teared up like they always do at weddings. I had the joy of watching two people commit to a lifetime together. It filled my heart.
Folks started posting photos from the wedding on Facebook, and I proudly reposted photos of the ceremony (with me looking awesome in my new suit, of course). Shortly after that, I received this message from a FB friend:
“Hey David, I am removing you from my friends list…sorry man, that latest post is way over the top! Homosexuals joining in “Holy” matrimony…I don’t think so??? The Holy Bible speaks out against homosexuality and speaks highly of Holy matrimony between a man and a woman. It’s nothing more than a slap in the face to those who choose God’s Word, for homosexuals to join in a Holy marriage. I’m only defriending you so I don’t have to look at your anti-God stuff anymore…nothing personal!”
Wow.
This came from a man I used to work with. A man I respect in his dedication to his family, and in his desire to live a moral and ethical life. A man with whom I have had some very interesting religious debates. He has become a Baptist preacher since we last spoke in person, and I suppose that makes this message unsurprising.
But, I was still surprised. I was taken aback. I needed a moment. I was hurt.
I was inclined to hurl some expletives in his direction.
But, only for a moment. He’s not really that important of a person in my life. I had actually at times grown rather tired of his Facebook postings…I don’t have a great need for fundamentalist dogma in my day. So, on some level, good riddance.
I sent him a letter at his church, expressing my disappointment in his withdrawal. I had a few friends read the letter before I sent it, to make sure that it didn’t contain too much bile. I’m not surprised that I haven’t heard back from him.
The situation got me thinking: What if this hadn’t been about my brother’s wedding, but about MY wedding? What if it hadn’t been from a distant friend, but from a beloved family member?
Ouch.
How many millions of gay kids (and adults) have had that exact thing happen to them? How many millions more will in the future?
I’m sorry.
I’m sorry for that pain. I’m sorry for that rejection. I’m sorry for that isolation.
I’m straight. Straight as a yardstick. Straight as an arrow. I am in your corner. If I could take on that pain for you, I would.
I love you.
If you’re gay, I think that’s wonderful, and I’m truly happy for you. I wish you all the love and joy in the world.
If you’re straight, I think that’s wonderful, and I’m truly happy for you. I wish you all the love and joy in the world. And I charge you, I charge you to imagine the above scenario played out with YOU as the target of rejection. Imagine the people closest to you telling you, essentially, “You are fundamentally flawed and I want nothing to do with you.” Our LGBTQ brothers and sisters face this everyday. Please don’t forget that.
The poor, misguided soul is no longer in my life. That’s okay. My brother and his husband still are. I just hung out with my brother a few weeks ago, and it was a blast. He’s brilliant, he’s funny, and he’s kind. I couldn’t be prouder to call him my brother. I love him, and love wins, period.
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A wonderful post.
I wish your brother and his partner the very, very best.
He, just two words…good riddance!
I love your honesty and I do sympathize. Respect is such an underestimated value these days.
Aye respect of differing opinons. The man is a legend. We should not have to be subjected to gay porn, which to men tongue kissing clearly is.
So you respect my opinion that you are a narrow-minded prude & bigot? Wow, that’s mighty white of you.
who says im white. You resort to name calling when you can’t respect another persons right to an opinion. You ARE THE bigot because i agree with you about 99% that’s not enough, that is the definition of bigotry. You are the narrow minded bigot. Definition of bigotry “intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself”. The fact you think i even think its about morality is silly. Its just that some of us, religious or non religious, think that civil partnerships give the economic rights the same as “marriage” yet its taxonomically incorrect term for a union that cannot produce kids in a collective sense yet heterosexual marriages can. One day evolution may be such that gays can recreate kids with their partner even if like heterosexual unions not all are able to or choose to. Herd immunity protects those straight couples who cant or wont have kids but who love each to call it marriage. One day that same evolutionary windfall may also be bestowed on gays by nature I personally hope it does but till that day its delusion to call it marriage. Your a right wing pseudo leftists fascist. I care about giving the poor money, gay or straight. FUK u u rich prig. You don’t get to define what peoples motives are and what is bigoted or do you think of yourself as the fuhrer? A god? Your opinion is invalid cause your slow and a bigot. Till you can prove how disagreeing on a taxonomical term is bigoted, till you can prove how the term marriage is any less intrinsic than the term “prenancy” or do you think if fat men demand the right to be called pregnant and then win that right that that actually makes them “pregnant” . Do doubt your not capable of proving such things, of showing how one is intrinsic and how one is defined as anything society decides it as. A philosophical debate is much beyond the irrational emotive and brainwashed sheep you are. No doubt when the media tells u to kill your fellow man cause their too many of us you will think those opposed to it are the ones who are “anti humanity bigots” such is the feeble false reasoning of a sheep.If you met me you might be a little more hasty to have the stupidty to call me the things you so clearly you self are. I cant be prejudiced against gays because simply i bloody danced with one who was a friend of afriend. Gays or any one else being happy in life is all i want but I dont have to agree with them taxonomically deluding themselves! Maybe one day evolution will mean they are not taxonomically deluding themselves.
I am going to block you now, but I will first let you respond and tell me if you’d like to continue the conversation via private email. You have brought a lot of anger and name-calling to this discussion board and I don’t want that here. Let me know if you want to have an email discussion.
Beautiful. 🙂 on behalf of the lgbt community, beautiful 🙂
Good for you! Love is love and hate is hate no matter how you slice it.
Although I believe your FB ex-coworker has a right to express his views, it should have occured to him that his words would not change your mind. He could have chosen his words more carefully, unsuscribed from you, or quietly unfriended you.
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here is response 853 – love your post – love that you are proud of your brother – love that you stood up for him and not just in his wedding
my wish is that someday people will not be narrow minded and so caught up in their interpretations that denounce others – my bible teaches love – I ignore the parts that don’t
you be a heritic then, as it says nowhere “condon sin” it might say “love thy neighbour” that does not mean we should approve of everything they do, somethings are very unapprovable, like rape, I certainly am not going to say rape is ok, just because of “love they neighbour” and gay sex whilst a much lesser sin is still a sin so I am still not going to say its ok. The church has to follow the ideal way,, the way things should be not the way they are, the fact you want an easy ride to disobey the ten commandements, the most important part of the bible, is up to you. Dont demonize those of us who still follow the way things jesus intended us to follow.
Here’s the thing. Jesus, if he was who many Christians believe he was, would encourage love, not hate. And yes, that goes both ways. But unless you’ve spoken to Jesus, you cannot be sure what he meant as the Bible has changed throughout time as have the interpretations.
And rape and gay sex don’t belong in the same discussion never mind the same sentence. One is about violence and the other is about two consenting adults.
I have asked several others on here, but so far have got no answer, where does Jesus even mention homosexualality. He doesn’t and it’s also not mentioned in the 12 commandments. Paul says men who have sex with men, not men who love men.
I have to admit I was a little taken aback when I first read this. I’m a Christian and, ironically, a Baptist, and I agree with the “un-friend” about the sanctity of marriage. However, I don’t “un-friend” people just because they are gay, or because they associate with gay people. I’m sorry that this Baptist has caused this friction as that is not what the Bible teaches. I have unfriended people before on FB because a. they’re not REALLY friends in the sense of the word or b. they do post things that offend me. And that’s my choice. And those friends have not been gay!
On the flip side, though. I find it doubly ironic that gay people talk about how narrow-minded Christians are but I think the rest of the world is pretty narrow-minded when it comes to Christians. In fact, preachers I know have been repeatedly asked to leave side walks where they were handing out literature while “other” groups (not necessarily gay) are allowed to stay in peace. Christians are attacked just as much as the gay community and it’s really sad that people only stand up for the gays, not the Christians. I’ve been laughed at because of my beliefs just as much as a gay person. But I’m not boohooing on the sidelines. I’ve even had people un-friend me on FB because they don’t like MY religious beliefs and that’s their choice. I’m fine with that. But let’s not group all Christians into the category of “narrow-minded”. I’m pretty it’s called the Freedom to Choose…and the Freedom of Speech. The gays use it, why can’t we?
okay, christians are hardly discriminated against. christians pretty much run the western world. political issues such as abortion and marriage equality are controversial because of christians imposing their religion on other people. freedom of religion means freedom to practice your religion yourself, not make others follow the tenets of your faith. but if the majority group in a nation is constantly passing laws that prohibit you from marrying the one you love or adopting children or pretty much being the equal as any other human being, then yeah, you’re going to stand up for your own rights. if lawmakers restrict reproductive rights and deny birth control to women then we are going to stand up. christians are not persecuted, they are the ones doing the persecuting, and its time everyone realized that.
Thank you. Only a complete crazy person can argue that Christians are in any way discriminated against when nearly the entire government follows their religion and their religion’s holidays are national holidays. It never fails to amaze me how the most powerful people on the planet are the first ones to whine on about how victimized they are.
I totally and completely disagree. You can not label conservatives – Christians. That is totally false and unfair to the Christian faith. And as to Christians not being persecuted…you obviously haven’t done your homework. You want to adopt children? So do we. You know what my friend was told when she attempted to adopt? Because she’s a Christian her paperwork would go to the bottom of any stack of files. Potentially she could years to adopt (and I’ve known many couples who have had to wait years). That came directly from a social worker. In schools we are not allowed to talk about God. A kid got kicked out of school for 3 days here because he wore a t-shirt to school that had a Christian saying on it. I wonder what would have happened if he’d worn a shirt with a gay pride saying? I know a preacher who was put in jail because he was passing out literature where someone didn’t want him to. Would they have put a gay person in jail for doing the same thing? People laugh at me when I tell them I believe in the God of the Bible. They tell me I’m archaic and that I need to join the rest of the 21st century. Do you know that when our country followed the Bible and the majority of the population attended some kind of church that the crime rate was a lot less? Just a thought.
to fireandair: religious holidays are national holidays? Really? Let’s examine those…and then you can tell me how persecuted the non-religious world is because they have to follow RELIGIOUS holidays. First, our nation was a Christian nation when those holidays were instituted. Okay. And, yes, a couple of them, like maybe 2 are actually Bible-based (although the actual celebration of those holidays makes this sketchy). Let’s start at the beginning of the year and work our way around shall we?
January – New Years Day – nope, not Chrisian
February – Valentines Day – nope, not Christian
April – Easter – if followed by Christians it is generally known as Resurrection Sunday, when not followed by Christians it is known a bunny and chocolate egg holiday – nope not Christian
May – Mother’s Day (while I think it’s good we honour our moms) – nope not Christian
June – Father’s Day (again, a good day) – but, nope not Christian
July – July 1st (or the American Independence Day), nope not Christian
August – here in NS it’s a beer-drinking day that has absolutely no affiliation with religion, sorry
September – Labour Day – Haven’t found that one in the Bible yet
October – Thanksgiving – has it’s basic roots in the principles of being thankful which could be construed as religious but I once had an atheist tell me that they can be thankful too, so I’m gonna go with Nope not Christian
– Halloween….ummm, yeah, I don’t think I need to go there
November (Americans celebrate Thanksgiving this month but we’ve already hit that)
December – Christmas – the day when Christians celebrate the birth of Christ WANT TO TALK PERSECUTION? Christians are not allowed to say Merry Christmas, they are not allowed to post pictures of the nativity scene in public places, HOWEVER, Santa is the word for this holiday. Xmas, and Happy Holidays rule. So please, tell me how our nation’s holidays are based on religion and how, oh so persecuted you are in following them. Please
Your disingenuous is as astounding as your refusal to acknowledge your entrenched privilege in American society.
There is nothing unholy about Love of any kind and there is certainly no correlation between a person’s sexuality and their morality or ethics. It’s disgraceful to think that anyone claiming to be a person of God could condemn another human being on the basis of their sexuality. No God that I believe in could be that shallow, petty and fearful. These are qualities of weak men who let fear guide them. God bless you, your brother and his partner.
er god says its a sin…. read the bible for once….. Cant believe you just called god shallow or persumed to know what the fuck he thinks…. I admit I dont know what he thinks and I am far more knowledgeable about bible than u. The rule in the bible is to not guess what is ok and what is not in terms of getting into heave, but the bibble is their as a guide to give us the best chance to get their and gay sex reduces a persons odds, by an unquantifiable amount, why would you do it? Mabye you dont believe in it, thats ok but dont tell others they are wrong for believeng what they believe. It just makes you all look like dictatorial sociopaths.
Jesus teaches us that there is only one path to Heaven, and that is through salvation and acceptance. He also teaches that all, let me repeat: ALL, of our sins have been paid for in His blood. Regardless of how distasteful you find another individual’s sexual orientation, there is absolutely nothing scripturally that says gay sex means that you go to hell. Is it a sin? I’m not a religious scholar, and am not going to open that debate. Let’s go with the worst case scenario and say that it is. See the above. All of our sins have been paid for and forgiven. This would include the “sin” of homosexual love.
As for “getting into heaven,” that requires one thing: your acceptance of Christ. I have found absolutely no fine print disclaimers in the bible of any variety, including one that says, “your sins are forgiven and paid for. To claim this salvation, accept Christ. *Oh, and don’t have gay sex or you go to hell. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.”
Doesn’t sound like the Christ I have come to know…
Earlier I said I was done, but couldn’t help but giving you props.
Your grammer and punctuation are a sin. Shut up.”Their” refers to people/person/things. As in “Their relationship is their business.” Way to use the F bomb, too. Wow. It just makes you look like a dumbass. Again, shut up.
Ps Your spelling is sad, too.
interesting how you flipped that around to portray yourself as being a misunderstood victim. Dictatorial? This from somebody that condemns others for being who they are? Maybe you need to look up “tolerance” and get yourself a clue. I didn’t call God shallow, I said that the God I believe in doesn’t discriminate based on sexuality. People can believe whatever they want but it is a sad state of affairs when they have to condemn others as a result. And yes, intolerance is wrong. It is bred from all that fear and anger you are harboring. You don’t have to approve of homosexuality but it’s okay to accept it as part of life for millions of people. It’s very possible that you have gay friends that are afraid to come out because of how you may react. Open your heart, dude. God will love you for it.
What a very awesome post! How nice to have a brother you love so much and are so close to, since just be cause we’re related doesn’t mean we actually really enjoy each other when we’re adults. Second, how awesome that you really like and respect your brother-in-law – that’s not always the case in families either. Third, I think Facebook needs to reevaluate the terminology of “Friends”, or we all need to be more judicious in who we “Friend” on Facebook, because it can certainly be revealing that someone you thought you knew and felt very friendly with can reveal himself to be so bigoted and inflammatory.
Congratulations on being Freshly Pressed – this post is really deserving of that visibility!
I don’t understand why gay haters think that the ability for gays to marry threatens them.
Your brother is a very lucky man, he will not have the trauma of having to hide the real person he is from you.
Ironic that he said “Nothing personal,” when his reaction was nothing BUT personal. I’m sorry that happened. My prayer is that your un-friend one day realizes how judgmental his response was.
Great post. I have a cousin who I’m pretty sure is gay. His Facebook always has him hanging out with the same guy. It says he is in a relationship but not with whom. All the signals point to him being gay. His mother quit talking regularly to our family several years ago and I hope it wasn’t because of this, but I can’t help thinking it might be. I was very close to her growing up and miss her a lot. I want to call her and tell her I don’t care if my cousin is gay. I want her back in my life. I want to know how my cousin and his partner are doing and tell her how glad I am he found someone that makes him happy.
But I feel it is not my place to expose it and I keep waiting for someone to finally confide in me so I can get this off my chest. I only talk to her about once a year and I’m tired of the tiptoeing around what my cousin is up too. I keep recalling the strange look on her face several years ago when I asked if my cousin had a girlfriend yet, before I realized what was going on. So I’m afraid of putting my foot in my mouth again.
Any advice?
If you want (your aunt?) back in your life, then phone and say so. When you put your foot in your mouth you didn’t know (or suspect). There’s no reason why you should do it again. You may have thousands of ‘freinds’ on Facebook, but they are strangers who come and go, family is everything. Don’t waste another minute. 🙂
Yes. Ask the young man.
Hey ivfmale,
I applaud your love for your family members and your desire to have them back in your life. I think you are absolutely correct that it is not your place to expose anyone. As you probably know, coming out is an intense and hugely personal decision, and every person who does so deserves to get there on their own timing.
If you want your cousin and aunt to confide in you, I think your best bet is to become a visible ally. Post pro-LGBTQ stuff on your FB page. Get a t-shirt with the word ALLY in rainbow lettering. Take a stand for LGBTQ peeps when the situation arises, even (and especially) when you have some personal risk in doing so. Make it clear to any and all that you are a safe person.
If you will build it, they will come, but you have to let them come to you when the time is right for THEM.
Peace,
Dave
That was such a wonderfully written post. Your brother is very lucky and special to have a big brother like you. So many men, in particular, totally reject their gay family member/friend, as if somehow their personality has changed because they have now “come out.” It’s great that you love him and his partner. I wish more people in the world could see things from your point of view instead of speaking nonsense like “marriage is under threat from gays.”
…and congrats on being Freshly Pressed!
I really like this post and have enjoyed reading all the comments/opinions from both camps. I have nothing to add to the discussion but really felt this post was worthy of my taking the time to actually comment rather than just hitting the like button. Congrats to yourself on being freshly pressed and thanks to the FB team for Freshly pressing this and thus bringing it to my attention.
What a wonderful post. Thank you for sharing this. By the way, congratulations on being Freshly Pressed!
It’s sad when people are so narrow-minded. Thank you for sharing your story!
It’s also sad when people are deliberately obfuscatory.
Weddings get people worked up! If its not one kind of drama, it’s another. I had two different ministers refuse to marry my husband and me because I’m not a Christian and he is. People are going to get married no matter what other people feel about it, so why burn bridges? I’m glad that your brother has you in his corner.
Thank you for sharing such a personal and thoughtful post. It’s unfortunate how some people have a tendency to label and forget that there’s a person behind it.
I am proud of this guy to have removed David from his FB friends (which is by the way not a meaning of friendship) because of his own traditions and trusts. Why do we have to suffer from people going against the stream and the natural way of life???
Before you get blasted, Eric, I’d honestly like to try to understand.
I agree that anyone should be able to unfriend someone on FB if they don’t feel like looking at their posts. I unfriended someone because she was too damn inspirational and positive and it was making me roll my eyes several times a day. Don’t want to outlaw cheesy enthusiasm, but I don’t want to view it constantly, either.
So, you’re suffering by looking at gay wedding photos?
Hmm. As a Christian, I’m totally shocked by this guys response to you. Maybe he needs to read the sections of the Bible that say stuff like, I don’t know, “don’t judge” maybe?? I’m a firm believer in God, but I’m also a firm believer that He loves all people, NO MATTER WHAT. He’s not saying “oh you’re gay? Sorry, not having that!” He’s saying, “Oh you’re gay? I love you anyway.” Just like when I swore earlier on today when I stubbed my toe and took my rage out on my kitchen table, he said “I love you anyway”. Just like when I lied last week and had a good ol’ gossip about someone I don’t really like. “Love your neighbour”? I don’t. He still loves me though. And he still loves my neighbour too.
Anyway, just my opinion. I’m so sorry for this person and any judgement that’s come onto you and your family from any other so called ‘Christian”s’ out there. I hate the thought that people are judging on the basis of what they think God thinks when really, they can have no idea. God is love. Deal with it.
Be blessed.
I have some friends going through something very similar regarding a wedding coming up in November. When one of them (getting married) posted on another friend’s page, she was attacked by that friend’s Christian friends. Rather than suffering more attacks, they unfriended the mutual friend so that nothing in their plans shows up on her page to lead to more attacks. This was also in part do to the fact that the mutual friend did nothing to defend them. They now wonder how supportive of them she really is. Having read the discussion. I should not be shocked that the Christians are always the most viscious when attacking others when they claim to follow a faith based on love. But somehow I always am. So many people who claim to follow Jesus actually follow the god of the Old Testament and prefer to cut themselves off from people who believe differently than follow the mandate of loving thy neighbor. I guess it is: love thy neighbor only if he or she believes the same as you do.
How horrible! That’s a perfect example of why it’s a good idea to not set your FB privacy settings on “friends of friends”, much less public. Then again, even if you go “friends only”, you can’t control other people’s settings, so in some cases your posts can still be visible to total strangers.
I’m with you on be disgusted by the hypocrisy of “Christians” who ignore the love thy neighbor passage, especially when it specifically states that your neighbor is not just your friend who’s just like you, but everyone.
As a Christian I have to say that yes, God is a God of love, but no, God does not love sin. He is also a God of judgement and a jealous God. AND, while Jesus, in the New Testament, spent time with “sinners” it was to show them how to lead a Godly life, He never condoned what they did. Zaccheus, a taxpayer, stole from many people. After an afternoon with Jesus he returned their money and DOUBLE! People gotta stop throwing in our faces that God is a God of love. You’re forgetting about all His other attributes.
However, I don’t agree that this girl’s friend should have attacked ANYONE. The Bible does not condone that kind of behaviour. I’ve had friends (that I’m still friends with) who don’t believe the same way I do. And, while they know I don’t agree with their lifestyle and wish they were living differently, they also know I love them for who they are. That was the essence of Christ’s message in the New Testament.
And really, PLEASE stop lumping ALL Christians into the “narrow-minded” box. It’s incredibly ANNOYING! Just like there Gay people who go out of their way to be rude and obnoxious…so too, there are Christians. It does not mean that all gay people are rude and obnoxious, so, too, it does not mean all Christians are narrow-minded!!!!!!!
Now, where did I ever say it was ALL Christians. It was those particular Christian friends of hers. I never once lumped them all together. That is your assumption. I stated “so many people who claim”. I did NOT say all Christians. I was specific in my wording. You are the one turning it into a broad generalization.
No one ever said God loved sin. Jesus came to fulfill the law and make way for the new. His message was one of loving the sinner, not just hating the sin.
I totally agree with your assessment that Christ’s message was to love the sinner and hate the sin. I think I wrote that somewhere on here. I’m not trying to get people even more mad at Christians but your statement ” I should not be shocked that the Christians are always the most viscious when attacking others when they claim to follow a faith based on love” seemed pretty general to me. Sorry if I misunderstood that you weren’t talking about all Christians there.
Amanda, your religion commands YOU to be silent on spiritual matters — the only reason who feel the need to speak out on that which you have been commanded BY GOD to be silent on is because the Devil is moving within you. You are a WOMAN. Be SILENT on spiritual matters, as your GOD commands. Who are you to defy your GOD?
Actually, my Bible does not command me to be silent. Once again taking it out of context. Have you even read the Bible? The passage I believe you are referring to, is about women being silent in church – as in not having women preachers. It says nothing about me being quiet and not saying anything. Wow. Way to take the Bible out of context. I am not defying God. Except maybe where He says not to throw my pearls before swine which clearly I am doing by thinking you would be reasonable to Christians having a voice.
Awesome post, thank you for sharing. 🙂 Its just mind boggling to me that certain people always have something to say. For somebody to go out of his way to appear ignorant makes me wonder if he may be confused with his own sexuality. Repressed feelings, perhaps? Thank goodness he un- friended you because you don’t need somebody like that in your world. 😀
Beyond wow.. a shame you had to deal with that kind of reaction after such a wonderful and loving experience. .. .
Now, of course, they say it occurs in the womb, and is not a choise. Then when will science give parents a real choice in the matter, after all the same progressives believe that it is not human until it exits the womb!
What business have you mentioning ANYTHING involving science Mr. Sanchez? Your religious babble isn’t scientific nor your view points so why would we need anything scientific?
Actually Mr Sanchez a lot of progressives don’t believe it exists even after it exits the womb. There is even a video been made in America of a doctor showing how to kill the child as it’s born. Thankfully I haven’t seen it, I’d probably have thrown up.
Mike, I’d honestly like to understand. You’re saying that whether or not homosexuals chose thier preference is key to allowing them the right to marry? I think this hinges on the idea that homosexuality is “wrong”, correct?
I’m wondering if there is any way around that. Clearly, the bible comes out against homosexuality. If you can’t allow for any social progress since the time the bible was written, then it is going to be tough for you to accept homosexuality as a path toward love, no matter if it is a chosen path inborn path.
Do you, in your heart of hearts, believe that men can deeply and beautifully love men and women can deeply and beautifully love women? (And that they can also do it really badly and hurt each other and act out of neuroris, of course – equality is equality.;)
Oh, I forgot to ask this of you as well: Please explain how a parent doesn’t have the right to choose an abortion but does have the right to choose if her child is straight or not? Now in my logical diagnosis of your post here I’d say not only are you an idiot, but also playing God. Funny how you being all religious and whatnot are wanting to take on your savior’s role. Trying to take over Heaven Mike? Might have to in order stay up there.
Nothing personal? Did he mean that ironically? Of course it’s personal… even if it’s not intended to be.
Your support for your brother is so great. That’s how people should be.
Beautiful post. It’s funny you say that since he is a minister you shouldn’t be surprised by his reaction. I would think it should be just the opposite. A man/woman of God, in my view is open to all people, does not judge them and loves them equally.
It will be as in the days of Sodom and Gomorra…and then the end will come.
I have aquaintances who take drugs, go to strip bars, look at pornography, cheat on their taxes, and probably a few homosexual and other sexual sins, I love them, I hate the sin. What God has declared as sin, is sin and we need the grace that Jesus showed us on the cross to overcome. To do otherwise is to reject the suffering and death of our Lord Jesus the Christ, chose this day who you will serve God or flesh. Believing also that each of us will be judged, not by man, but by a vengeful and jealous God, and only the Blood of the spotless lamb (Jesus) can cover our sins.
To call the sexual union of two persons of the same sex “marriage” is as much heresy as calling the killing of the unborn a persons right.
You joined your friends on the path of drugs obviously. Sober people use their brain. You sir, should never have children.
Oh Tim ..see me tipping my hat to you!! I could not have said it better!!
Tim – not productive. Of course he uses his brain, and he’s actually using it to be fair. He’s saying that people sin, it isn’t up to him to judge them, and you are taking a risk bringing the judgement of god against you. There is actually love and tolerance in there, if you look. Insulting him and telling him not to have children makes this whole debate worse.
I agree with your point of view, Tim, but I think that you’re making a tacticle error writing Mike off as an idiot.
If he has kids, and claims heresy when his son or daughter dates another of the same sex he will excommunicate them. And we know this from his religious views. If he failed to do so would in turn make him a hypocrite by being able to accept his kin for their differences but nobody else. Where would I be wrong here?
@Tim: Because, in his mind, he’d be giving his children the gift of a moral center, the gift of the love and approval of god, and the gift of a good life led the way god intended. If a child of his turned out to be gay, one of two things would happen. Hopefully, he’d open his mind and, with the help of a community and the love he has for his child, he’d alter his point of view to allow him to love his child for who he/she is.
Alternatively, he’d cut the child off and they’d both suffer. That would suck.
I do know, though, that being on the receiving side of “don’t have kids” really gets someone’s back up. It makes undertanding drift further away, not closer.
My real point is that we ALL need to challenge ourselves to see where the other is coming from.
No..those who have no understanding shouldn’t have offspring that they may in the future make feel so unwanted they commit suicide. He shouldn’t have children UNTIL he gets past his anti-homosexual feelings.
Where do you draw the line? How self-actualized must a person be before reproducing?
When I was pregnant, I worried that my child would do something horrifying to me. If I found that my son was torturing an animal, I though, I’d disown him. The thought scared me. (I now know that I could never disown my child, whatever his crimes.) We all have our predjudices.
The hostility you feel is justified, IMO. It isn’t going to unite anyone, though. If you want to change the world, love works better than force.
How am I not on the side of love? Unconditional love is what I’m saying. You sound like I’m bashing him. I’m on the side of the unborn children and the future suicides. A line to draw? Everybody has already drawn a line. Fred Phelps drew a line and disowned his children for being gay. Sure, we’ll go ahead and assume he’s not Phelps. There’s no force. Merely stating that we put children through enough. You want a 50-50 chance he’ll not disown. There’s a 50-50 chance there’s a God. There’s also a 50-50 chance his kid will turn out gay and hate his father. Yeah, that works out for both parties. Let’s not request for a 100% guarantee or anything. I am not forcing at all. It’s called pointing out where he may go wrong, has gone wrong, and a logical adult reason why those views do NOT support a child coming into this already distraught environment. You have your thoughts Chaotic. I have mine. In my opinion, not having children possibly brought up in a zombie-like restricted house is not asking that much of society. Take it for what it is. Regardless: I stand by my thoughts. Especially after reading about a 3 year old beat to death for mere potty training accidents. Yeah, a gay hater has never tied a noose around a homosexual’s neck, tied it to the back of a truck and ran along gravel roads. Nah, never possible that a person who doesn’t understand could do such a thing. Oh wait..it has. And they thought much like this person.
I hear you, Tim. At some point, you do need to cast a person aside, consider them not worth communicating with (in their current form, at least) and just protect yourself and those you love from them. I don’t know where that line goes, but I do see your point.
I hope that a parent who would truly disown their own child for being gay has other issues. I hope that a good and decent parent would never have that kind of reaction.
Right dim, that would be why you call a person with a higher social and mental iq than you an idiot, as you did to that other chap? Hitler was an atheists, so er that makes you have far more in common with a mass murder, as was stalin…. Your post would be delicious if it was not so funny. I bet your mates take the piss out of you a lot… Your like obssessed or something. Learning difficulty much? After all you say the book is wrong that it is close minded… Fuck sake how many times do you gullible pricks make a full of yourself….. Because by saying anything against it like what you just did you show your self up to be all of those things you said about the book, the half normal atheists would hate that they have a prick like you batting for them…. The other girl told you off. I think you should grow the fuck up. You sound about five…. My view is right because I say it is, everyone else is an idiot, thats what you said!!!! What a fucking loser, and a child. I am not conversing with a 12 year old like yourself. You think your right, I aint saying your wrong, yoursaying were wrong, hence your the one that is a hittler wannabe, your not sticking up for your believes your attacking others, the hatred of a book, yes who else hated books? Hitler. Bet you have never read books in your life,FIrst you kunts will burn the book we read, then you will gass the christians if you have your way., your mentality and absolutism are testamount to that. You just said it was a closed minded book and it was wrong, care to backtrack? I think you have social issues mate, you lack empathy and you are absolutely conviced you are right, calling the first dude who is far clever than you, an idiot. As for my spelling I am spelling at the leve you deserve, you are a baboon, who attacks people who have diffrentt views, nex tyou will try to burn our books and stone christianns, thats where your nazi hatred laeads you, so well done for making yourself look more of a tit every time you open your dimwitted mouth. Have a nice life, sheep dim. Your the fucking sheep, its beame a cult to hate religion. Civil parternserships are more than enough, but you rpircks want more and more. I proud to stand up against you fucking nazis.
lmao at space..not to egg on but my name would be Tim, and although your intentional mistype of my name (which is actually the 12 year old coming from you) and reviewing your MASSIVELY horrible typing I’m sure you surpass my 160 IQ I’ve been tested out at. None the less, you see I never said the book was WRONG merely FAULTY which are two very different things. The fact is your book you hold so precious wasn’t made by God. Why follow it so close that you lose what’s really moral and replace it with the terms “Godly” or “Holy” instead of doing what’s right for the good of mankind without having to assume its for some unseen force? In NONE of my posts have I stated Christianity was completely wrong. It’s wrong to follow anything blindly like many do. Now, you have the Old and New Testament and the King James version..which book do you follow? All three? Just one? Which one? How close? Ever sinned? Ever seen a single shred of skin prior to marriage that you shouldn’t have? I support open thinking. That includes giving Christians and Catholics, Buddhists and Jews etc, including Native American views as just that. Views. Neither right nor wrong. I merely don’t believe in it, support it, or feel it should be used as a reason for war every time ya turn around. The Church of Fonzi. <– My 12 year old like comment for you. Leave homosexuals alone. They are NOT evading your home. I take that back..if you act like this in PUBLIC they most likely found where you live. Chaaaarrrrgggeeeeee!!!!!
Just so you know, Leviticus also says not to wear mixed cloth. Better throw out all your polyester/cotton blend clothes.
By definition he is an idiot: Informal . an utterly foolish or senseless person. // Foolish for his thought process of “heresy” when that same logic was used for witch burning. So no. I still say he should not have kids and is a complete idiot. Very productive in my opinion.
Yeah, and there are things in the bible that are vile. About slaves respecting their masters and women being owned by men. I’m not sure how you reconcille that with reality if you believe everything in the bible. It must be tough to grapple with.
Tim, I’m just trying to gently propose that maybe you’re being judgemental, too. I know it is warrented, but you’re not going to win him over by telling him he’s an idiot.
As a member of a Baptist church in New Zealand that has several homosexual members of its congregation I’m sorry that this chappy decided to be so one-eyed. He really wouldn’t get along very well in my homeland (a bit of local politics – the definition of marriage is undergoing referendum and it has the support of religiously ordained MPs). His view was archaic, but your post was beautiful and you’ve handled it so well. Glad you enjoyed the wedding! x
New Zealand has become increasingly supportive more so now than ever of a lot of things. The stand for Kim Dotcom was awesome and now this reform? Glad to see churches are changing in other countries as the USA struggles on everything all the time as of late. We can definitely take a bite from ya’lls actions, swallow it, and we’d poop out excellence in return.
I am a gay Christian woman, and I just stopped by to shake you by the (virtual) hand and tell you that you are a wonderful human being and sound like an awesome brother and brother-in-law.
Your brother is lucky to have you in his life. So is his partner.
I am christian, and am appalled that those who call themselves by the name of God are so hateful to others who are different in their sexual preferences, yet have family members who choose the same. I am not about to stop preaching the truth, even when I see my own family members walk around dressed and acting like boys. Do I still love them yes; however, I owe them the truth. If it had not been for the fact that they come to church to hear the word of God and still live this lifestyle then I would probably not have opportunity to bring a word to them as I have; they were my Facebook friends as well, and I de-friended them not because I hate them, but because after all the preaching and the word going forth it is apparent that they will do what they will; so be it.
I wrote an article called “LEAVE THEM TO IT” which speaks on gay marriage and the word of God; as well as my support of it because rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to which all are entitled.
God’s word is plain and simple…homosexuality is an abomination to him. Hence, what else can a person do but leave them to it.
See my article; http://daileytalks.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/gay-marriage-leave-them-to-it/
Wow. thank you. that’s all we ask of you. Believe whatever you like, but leave us to our own lives.
Just like we leave you to yours.
I see it that your orientation or mine has nothing to do with liberties…Hence, if someone says that they believe in God then they will walk according to his precepts. God is a God mercy; however, he means what he says…grace and forgiveness is available to everyone who calls on the name of Jesus and repents of their sins.
Believe it or not…we all have freewill.
The word of God is not the bible the bible is the work of those
seeking worldly power / (part one) be the halfbaked ramblings
of Jewish scripture / whom claimed they God’s choosen whom
claimed God sanctioned they murder others as to rob them of
land as possesions / cruel acts still carried out today by Jewish
Govt / Military on the people of Palestine whom robbed of land
A jewish military jewish govt but continue force palestinians off
their land where jews contiue in expanding building more jewish
settlements upon PALESTINIAN land PALESTINIANS ever forced
into a smaller area where they are deprived of the basics of that
needed to survive. Palestinian children as adults daily bombed
or shot at / palestinian children & adults imprisoned without any
charge being brought or a trial where charged doing any wrong.
Part Two of Bible made / Christians claim) being the teachings
of the son of god / it be claimed by halfbaked christian teaching
he was free of sin. What being SIN one may ask ? SIN unto the
halfbaked teachings of christianity is SEX / that all born of SEX
thus all being sinners. The complete madness of christianity but
takes some beating. Their claim it being their leader was not born
of SIN (SEX) that he was born of a virgin / thus born of a virgin he
being free from SIN (and it gets far more hilarious) it be claimed by
christianity being free from SIN their leader Jesus has the power to
remove the SIN of others ( and it gets better as far more hilarious )
if accept Jesus as their leader one can have their (SINS removed)
removing ones SINS one qualifies to enter a place called HEAVEN
where God and son Jesus live / a heaven which being somewhere
beyond the clouds. Christian brainwashing of such nonsense has
resulted where christianity but a organization that having a yearly
turnover of $billions / money paid in donations from the foolish in
whom believe in giving they are booking their place in heaven an
heaven that be nothing short of than /one gigantic religious fraud.
The word of God can’t be spoken the word of God’s being the very
breath of life that one in taking / when such word stops entering the
human frame then there be no life / a human then returning to dust.
Thus the Bible is the produce of the mind a product of ideas beliefs
of fantasy / its aim in gaining great power for an few over the many
when jews took to worshiping one God not the many Gods / it put a
great power into the hands of a few rather than the many / when it
being western nations saw such a means in gaining power / they but
all jumped on the bandwaggon / only with them not God as a central
player / they put the Son of God in focus as the centre of christianity
and accussed the jews of killing the son // thus the jewish people no
longer God’s choice western nations claimed title being the choosen.
Thus a bible when formed being half the mad the ramblings of jews
& ( part two) the halfbaked ramblings of christians giving self praise.
I don’t know what to say about that…I only know what he(God) has done in my life. God bless you.
Well…I guess it’s good that you’re not bullying GLBT folk or actively trying to change them, but you still display the “Christian” attitude that bugs me–and many others. Namely, that you have utter certainty that you possess 100% of the truth, that there can be no questioning, and anyone who rejects your beliefs is 100% in the wrong. I address this to Mike Sanchez as well: So many believers start from the assumption that everyone is going to be convinced by their argument of “the Bible says this” or “God wants that” because basically we all accept the Bible and their particular Christian ideas of God. Apparently, they think that if we raise a disagreement, we’re just “sinning” and forgetting what we learned. Get it straight (no pun intended): Some people just outright reject the alleged authority of the Bible and the image of God it claims to represent.
And you still posses the “atheist” attitude that you are so sure you are 100% right and that their is no “sin” attached to their actions, that civil paternerships arent enough that gays should be married in places who still respect god and his teachings, that other people should give up what the bible and tradition has taught us, becuse thats the in thing to do. You can reject the idea of the bible but dont expect others to be forced to reject their idea of the bible it is you hypocritical, blind atheists that cant see its only your side that is asking anyone to change, asking anyone to give up their beliefs because its not fashionable in their eyes.
Really, there is no other truth than that which I believe. It is as those who have eyes see it. I believe one thing and someone else believes another. My attitude to this thing is not up for debate, It is what is obvious and that which I wrote. Sadly, I consider that this thing is gone too far when that which has been the foundation of a country is up in arms. My name is Kay Dailey, a wife and mom…a giver of life. I know my role. Let each one find where they fit in,
I don’t see why you felt you had any right to write ANYTHING. Your bible and your God command you to silence as a woman on spiritual matters. If you feel the need to speak up, you should atone because it is the Devil moving within you.
You are disgruntled and I have a right to write; just as you do. I am not your scapegoat. However, is closest to you who you deal with daily are those to contend with. You don’t have a bone to pick with me. I would save for strength for those you need to deal with. Surely, there are haters somewhere near you. I am not the one.
You are disgruntled and I have a right to write; just as you do. I am not your scapegoat. However, is closest to you who you deal with daily are those to contend with. You don’t have a bone to pick with me. I would save for strength for those you need to deal with.
Surely, there are haters somewhere near you. I am not the one. I had the right, because i am a journalism student and I wanted to bring the other side…seems enough of those opposed have brought their view.
I’m a christian, and I’ve always maintained that God judges us based on our action. This man has done nothing but judge and pontificate over something. If God is love, then he’s all kinds of love, not just the kinds they choose to acknowledge.
Now there’s a Christian with a head on their shoulders. If I were religious you’d get an Amen over that brother man. 😀
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Thanks for sharing and trying to have a conversation with this person. I live in Minnesota and in November we have to vote on a constitutional amendment which would add wording to our constitution regarding marriage. I cannot express how important it is that people like you are sharing your stories in the hope that someone from here reads this and chooses to Vote NO.
Again THANK YOU!
You can read what I think about it here: http://mplsgossipgirl.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/vote-no/
See the MN united for ALL families website: http://www.mnunited.org/
I’m straight and I’m Christian and while I don’t believe in gay marriage per se, I am not about to unfriend someone over it. Jesus said we are supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves…it says nothing about classifying their sexual orientation first (or to use any other filter for that matter). Jesus loves us all equally…I’ll never understand why some people just don’t get that. Great post. 🙂
I appreciate that, Mindy, as a random reader. When I read this story, I was looking for the angle that brings people together. Challenging as it may be, I think that we do need to respond to even the hate and the judgement with tolerance and love. Sympathy and a real effort to understand. The FB church guy was a decent man who felt like his faith was being threatened. (As an atheist, I have trouble with the sympathy on many levels, but who cares? My discomfort isn’t the point.)
There must be a way to accept the fear. To embrace the judgemental person and offer a lack of judgement in response. Discounting the fear is polarizing us all. Eventually, I do think that gay marriage will be accepted. And it will hurt some people a lot to lose this battle. I hope that we can help them through that struggle, same way that I hope that we can help everyone who has been stung by judgement through their struggle.
But it only hurts them in their own minds. that’s the probem. It doesn’t actually hurt them, or even affect them, except that the law no longer reflects their self proclaimed but otherwise completely imaginary superiority as heterosexuals, as Christians, as moral people, and as human beings.
It allows me to have what they have, nothing more and nothing less. I don’t care whether they approve of my marriage, i want the same legal rights, obligations and benefits they they have from our government.
They have proclaimed that this is about religious beliefs and about sins, but only their religious beliefs about our sins. They are willing to live in peace (well, some, mostly, depending) with people that reject the totality of their religious beliefs, not the itty bitty antigay part. and there is no problem. But this not only gets their holy knickers in a twist, it somehow justifies forcing their religious beliefs onto people, ministers, churches, and whole denominations that don’t share them.
We have laws at every level of government that forbid government establishment of religious belief in a secular society, and laws that forbid discrimination on the basis of religious beleif, yours or mine. Why is this different?
What we gay people want extended to us are same respect and courtesy they routinely extend to all of the rest of the planet that they believe are going to burn in hell fortever.
If that’s what they want to get all butthurt over, then at least they should admit it freely, instead of trying to hide behind “sincere religious belief.”
I agree, Ben, there is no real threat. But hurting them “in their own minds” is a real and actual pain.
I just don’t believe these people are “bad”. I think that kindness is in order. Treating people the same, regardless of whether they are gay or straight, is obviously the right path. I think that any rational person will come around to it, but not if you’re cruel to them.
Absolutely, the law should mandate equal treatment. I won’t cave or tread that gently. But, in debate, I think that tolerance is essential, even if it is one-sided.
Love wins, every time. And God would agree with that.
That captures my sentiments exactly! Great post!
Brilliant. Well done. As angry as you had the right to be you spoke from a place of peace. I hope to hear more voices like this. Thank you.
I’ve recently entered a part of my life where I discover my own beliefs and views on the world. My soulmate, will say I am a Buddhist in both heart and thought but, for now, I know that I believe everyone feels suffering and that we all strive for the same goal: happiness. Whether that happiness is in a relationship, a career, an adventure, whatever floats your boat, I believe that you have a right to seek out happiness. You have control over what you say, what you do, where you go, what you think- no one has the right to dictate how you live out your life.
When people act upon such hatred and ignorance, it pains me. Why must everyone conform to a specific way of life? Why must EVERYONE be a male-white-straight-christian-american? The answer might be that it’s the “right way to be/the right thing to do,” or it could be that people of specific labels, genres, or cultures feel comfort in believing they are superior, that they are the ones who have reached the height of the human race, that by fitting into their group grants you an admission into heaven.
Here is the truth as I see it through an open heart and mind: the very physicality of your body, mind, or sexuality means nothing; it is the voice of your ‘self’ (if there is such a thing) that defines you. You can wear all the designer clothes you want, be a part of whatever self-righteous organizations you please but it doesn’t matter. When you harbor ignorance and hate within you, you are so far from any kind of true freedom that you mine as well chuck whatever good karma you’ve earned in past lives (if the belief of samsara stands true).
I’m right there with allydavidstevens; love who you love. Life is too short to discriminate.
A very touching post. Your brother is a very lucky man to have someone so open in his life. As you mentioned, this is not always the case for gay men and women. Family are unfortunately often the first one’s to turn their backs. Facebook has oddly become nothing more than a stadium for opposing viewpoints to fling hate and propaganda around freely, with no fear for the ramifications. It’s quite disheartening and usually annoying to see so much negativity floating around on my social networking wall at once. If Facebook is supposed to mimic the social experience, it’s either a poor representative or it’s an eye opening look at how society really is. Thank you for sharing and for standing by your brother!
I know there are a million and one comments here, but I just wanted to say that this is a wonderful post. I wonder if the guy that defriended you would have the cojones to say that to your face. Or did the internet make it easier? IMHO, it’s another example of how social media and our digital world fails to complement our real relationships.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Dan
with respect that is almost as utter tosh as tom, who goes around like an obssessive, calling people “idiots” because they have a different view, too intellectual for his mind. Social media largely supports gays, largely vilifies those who don’t agree with gay mariage. I have had a conversation about marrying, hypothetically, in a church other than my own would certain family come to it, some have said no its my birth right to marry in church x, they would not ignore me or not speak to the girl, they would just not go to the wed. Now I would accept this as their right, its nothing to do with hatred. Gays cannot marry in the eyes of the chruch,again nothing to do with hatred.
Forcing people to give up their religous belifes because they dont agree with yours is akin to fascism, if a church doesnt want to marry gays, if a person doesnt want to be at a gay weding, thats their choice and to be frank no one has a damn right to say that is “predjudiced” else why not say not wanting your children to be taught by a peadophile is “prejudiced” we may be talking about 2 different ends of the spectrum, but its the same argument, that is if we dont agree with something morally and respond with non-violent conciensious objection we are somehow being “prejudiced”, but we prejudice things every day and its a part of life, we should reserve the term prejudice for denying people the right to vote, taking their civil liberties off them. Gays already have legal rights in civil partenerships, the fact they demand people who dont agree with their religion to marry them is insane, what do they hope to achieve by being married infront of people who are misserable watching it and misserable performing it? I’d have though a registry office and civil patenership is more than enough. Its about the atheists asserting their superioty complex over christians.
The people in favour of gay marriage are some of the most argumentive, unempathetic, self obssesd and single minded in my personal experience. I have an older cousin who even her friends think “cant say this or that she will argue”, she always goes on about “judging people” when she is guilty of “judging people” by the very fact anyone who uses that line is 90% of the time doing exactly what they are accusing others of doing. And a student at uni who even the others in her office used to say ” That will be her arguing again”. Both on the side of gay marriage. And I know far many in the same mold, and they are always whinny , pretentious, hypocritical, obnoxious people who think they are right and others are wrong. Usually with the same basic accent even though there accents are from different countires and regions.
As tim sums up they are basically just more elaborate users of calling those who dont agreee with them “idiots”, who is the idiot then? And personally if you post gay marriage photos make sure you only display them to those in favour of it, just like nazis should only post their bile to non-jews and non-blacks, therefore you wont offend anyone and the reasonable man will know you went out of your way to not cause offence and wont have just cause to feel violated. Gays arent being shot like in the 3rd world, that is abuse, dennying them the right to call their sin marriage is not. And calling it a sin is not the same as those who say they are going to hell for it, truth is no one knows who is but you would want to improve your odds.
You don’t understand the issue AT ALL.
Gay people are fighting for the right to marry, not the right to marry in YOUR church. No one’s religion is violated when a civil ceremony and the rights associated are provided to all people equally. Not unless your religion demands keeping other people as second class citizens.
Furthermore, disliking people because of who they are is prejudice. Disliking someone because of the harm they have done to other people is rationality. There is a big difference.
Thank you so much for your comment! I commented farther down before I read all these posts and finally find someone who agrees with me! This IS the issue. Why do Gays want to marry in the first place? It’s a Biblical institution. I’m sorry, but it is. God ordained it at the beginning of the world before any other religion popped up. All gays are trying to accomplish by pushing for “marriage” (when so many people aren’t even getting married any more) is to push their faces into those of the Christians to say “HAH! Take that!” What extra rights will they receive by being married? Maybe a few tax things. Come on…really? So fight for your right to claim your “partner” on your taxes. Seriously. Why do Christians get labeled as narrow-minded and bigoted when all we are doing is fighting for our right to worship as we please?
@ droopy Yawn fucking idiot you are. Where do I say I dislike gays, oh right thats you being a thick cunt again like the other atheists. You get the language your lack of empathy deserves. Further more where do I dislike them, have you met me? No I didnt think so. Cuase I disagree with gay sex and calling a civil parternship a marriage? Oh thats right I am only discraminating against them based on the criterion of a bunch of socially inept, one dimensional, unemapthic bunch of shits. I psychologist would say you people are fuking narcassitss and would also clear me of your accusasions of “disliking them” as being down to words of mad cunts! You think every one should live by your fuking stards your a prick. And they do hurt people, they hurt themseleves spiritually. Am I supposed to condone people stealing small items out of ashop? No it its a crime, and is a small sin, the same with gay sex. Even a gay guy I know doesnt indulge in it cos he thinks it a sin, next you will accuse him of being prejudiced? Wouldnt put it past you Naziesque cunts, coz he is “admitting to being a lesser person” no he is following what he believes is right, and he doesnt give a fuck what you atheist pricks says. He thinks your band of aggressive unempathetic narcassitic followers have done far more harm for gay people than good, and he doesnt share your values. Where Have I indicated I dislike gay people? I havent, and they are not allowed to call it marriage as that is a biblical term used by religions, you are trying to force your views on religions, thus you are fucking evil, hitler did the same. Worse than us people who are following our religion. I support civil parternships, the fact you kunts are against anyone who doesnt agree with you at all times shows you are the next form facsim, you wil be fucking gassing us christains if you had the chance. Hope you faucking die or learn , at least, to have empathy with others. Your view is not right jsut because you shout it other and other, and you have no right to dare call people bigotted because they dont agree with gay marriage. Only people who shoot gays and dont talk to them can be classed as bigots you utter moron. FUCK YOU ssave your fuking wingging us christains do give a fuck, you hate us, you are denying us our human right of freedom of sppech and religion but we will fight you kunts and not let you gass us you sick fuck. No point arguing with the self important who think they are FUKING GOD. only you kunts dont believe in god, but you still act like you are the god, like you can make the laws of countires, and deny people their human rights, Your mental abuse of me and other good peopleshows what a kunt you are. God is on my side on this one, except he would tell me to ignore you pricks and be the better person. Know this your all a bunch of sad fucks trying to impose their view on other people, and wanting validation from your fellow zombies.
See basically you prats think that every human being must have the same views or else they dont ” Understand at all” But dont argue with fools or people wont be able to tell the difference. I wonder if your anti gay marriage friennds think much of you or mabye you tone down acting like a prick in front of them or mabye you surrounded your self in a bubble of like minded dictatorial narcassists? Its you that needs to grow the fuck up, stop being a self indulged prick, and stop thinking people who are even a little against something gay are against gay people you UNREASSONABLE FUCK. You would not agree with your 15 year old daughter dating a 30 year old, so why agreee with gay sex? Ok its your choice but dont fuking try to demine smarter, more compassionate and socially able people such as myself who still think 15 year olds having sex wiht 30 year olds is not just illegal but is also a spiritual sin. Gay sex is legal but it is not spiritually legal. Just fucking accept other peoples acceptance of the bible you prick, without demeaning them because, you my simple friend, dont have the intellectual or emotional capacity to act beyond anything like a child, and whats more social media sites validate your totally misplaced superoirty complex. You fucking dont know the meaning of the word “prejudiced” or “oppression” I bet the gays in the third world dont want gay marriage, they just want not to be shot, which is perfectly admirable. “Oh hes a biggot” aye son your a biggot you make that perfectly clear with your kuntish comments ya scum.
Dear thespacebetween2,
I’m sorry that this post has triggered your anger so. I would be more than happy to discuss the issue with you in a private email exchange if you would like. I respectfully request that you cease your comments of this nature here, as the purpose of this blog is to create connections and promote peace.
Thank you.
Dave
To Amanda Jane: Why do Gays want to marry in the first place? It’s a Biblical institution. — Is THAT why there’s a legal certificate? Separate from church our state is written. For the religious you’re right. For the non-religious it’s a mortal choice acknowledging faithful joining of two people who swear to not stray off and screw others. Fine, have it your way and start petitioning that states no longer require marriage to file as a married type, we’ll just have to add another name for it like “Homosexualiage.” I’ll vote for that. One more thing to add to “The more you fight, the more they win.” More power to those who fight for it. Sure I don’t agree with a giant 4 or 5 lane parade because it clogs traffic. That’s the ONLY thing they’ve done to affect others in ANY negative way aside from offend your fragile belief system.
i don’t know about in America, but in England give you quite a few civil rights too, inheritance, tax benefits just to name 2. Also if they want to declare their love by making that commitment why shouldn’t they. This is their way of saying ‘This is the person I love and want to spend the rest of my life with.’ The same as when I married my husband 38 years ago.
It’s refreshing to finally hear a straight man speak out on the subject. Wonderful story and I wish your brother and husband a long and happy marriage. PS you don’t need that other guy as a friend anyways. Closed minded opinionated people bring no good to your life.
Refreshing because they agree with your views? LMAO of at “closed minded opinionated people” your being closed minded in your apprasial of another guys legitamate views fuckwit. For what its worth he shouldn’t have defriended him but the other guy should not have rubbed his nose in it, it takes two to tangoo, all you athesits would make good hitlers with your self-appointing your self as judge, juriay and executioner about excatly what views are “acceptable” and which ones make somone “close minded and opinionated” , I would say unless some one is a nazi, a zionist or a murderer etc etc we really are in no position to call anyone what you just did to that great christian minister who stuck by the scriptures. Of course you atheists are just facists, wanting every one to conform to one set of standards, much more close minded than a guy expressing his right to free speech. And ps its a shame he publiciised the photos because that other guy doesnt need a judgemental anti-christian as his friend, till some one takes you atheists down a peg or two you are going to continue to act full of your own self importance and narcissim. Ps People do seriously tell me that I am the least narcassitic guy they know, so am in a perfect position to juge other peoples narcassim, some of them even support gay marriage and yet they know EXACTLY what I am getting at.
I would be heartened if a tolerant gay even exists who doesnt expect chruches to bend over backwards, who admits they are living in sin but admits they cant help it, just like some straight people cant help gambling, they would get my respect, but most gays are full of their own self importance and think that anyone who opposes gay adoption and marriage has practically said they should be put in a conentration camp.When they learn empathy and perspective, I will respect them and the likes of you, a whole lot more.
Wait..suddenly atheists are fascist? We’re the ones who don’t care if there’s a God because it shouldn’t take a supreme being to make you act decent. A mind that’s closed is one that ONLY excepts a faulty book and not just looking at things as you should normally. You wanna insult an entire group of people who more times than not have been known to help people WAY more than any self-proclaimed Christian. Calling yourself by a religious faction is conforming. You conform in every way possible all the way up to entire communities shunning somebody for not going to a man made temple. Perhaps you should look at the values of an atheist. Independent, free thinking, and we don’t need approval from people like you to feel good about ourselves. Atheists are not your enemy unless you say things that show you’re either extremely young, extremely old, or have been mind-warped. We are not Hitler. I have yet to see any atheists kill or disparage an entire race or religion. You actually have done so though which in turn makes YOU the Hitler-like person. And please don’t get butt-hurt that I actually stood up for my atheistic views. I have yet to tell somebody they shouldn’t believe yet plenty tell me I should. You’re not right. You just think you are. Go to church little lamb and leave us Atheists Hitler-comment free.
what a wonderful post. I have always considered that I was just lucky that my mate was of the opposite sex. I wonder, if your former “FB friend” also realized that his precious bible also said it was fine to have women as property, to kill disobedient children, and all of the other horrors it espouses. I suppose it’s okay for him to slap faces and then whine about how the actions of others that do no concern him are supposedly slaps to his face. Indeed, isn’t he supposed to turn the other cheek? I’m glad yuo wrote him a letter. He may have the right to express his opinion but he does not have the right to have it unconstested and shown to be wrong.
Do I have the right to reply to your blatant misrepresentation of the Bible? Let me address each in order.
1. I’d love to know where it says it’s okay to “have women as property”. I have read the Bible through more than once and I’ve never read that.
2. “kill disobedient children” Yes, one of the Old Testament laws stated that rebellious children should be stoned. a. there is no record of this ever occurring. b. really, if it had happened once it sure would be a deterrent for the rest of the children to obey their parents (which doesn’t happen too much in today’s world – so maybe we could use that one! hmmm), and, c. you guys are always telling us that we shouldn’t refer to the Old Testament anymore – so that law should be ignored being it’s in the OT, right?
3. “turn the other cheek”…yes, if he’s being persecuted, but really? Just because he decided to “un-friend” someone from FB because he didn’t want to see the pictures or read the posts doesn’t mean he “un-friended” that person in real life. Seriously, people. How does “turning the other cheek” even have anything to do with this situation!!
I know that you guys love to throw the Bible back in our faces and talk about how God is love…but seriously, if you don’t the know the Bible don’t act like you do. I know nothing about the gay community and I don’t care to, just as you don’t care to know more about the Bible or Christianity. So stop acting like you know what you’re talking about. I’ll admit that a lot of Christians have taken the Bible out of context. It happens with everything – not just Christianity. But that doesn’t mean that all Christians are bigoted. And it certainly does not give people who aren’t Christians the right to throw it back in our faces and call us idiots. We’re not idiots.
They are the idiots, jane. Socially self indulged. A psychiatist would say that they show signs of autism, a lack of empathy, a lack of understanding, a 100% belief they are right and others are wrong. Christians are not stoping people being gay. We just dont support it. These cunts just want us to support gay sex. They are not happy with “each to their own” they cant mind their own buisness, they dont even realize that civil parternships are more than enough, that all they are fighting for is a word, a word reserved in the bible for two men and two womens, it has fuck all to do with civil rights. Mabye they know that. But their comments betray that they don’t. They wont be happy till we all sit watching gay porn, in our own homes, we should not be forced to watch gay porn, but these fuckers will try to make us do that, in the “intrests” of equality, do one, just do one is really what some one needs to tell em. Smack em in the face for their harrasment of christians, then see if these little nazis in their gay pride nazi marches are still so confident.
Sad you feel everybody who is homosexual is out to get you. Are you one of those survivalists that have burrowed 10 feet underground in a concrete enclosure with 4 subscriptions to Guns & Ammo, more bullets than the Army, and more guns than fit on one wall? I’m sure there’s a few rocket launchers in there, and you most likely own a Silo with an active missile ready for that apocalyptic wrath of Heaven and frogs and zombies that will eat your skull and steal your soul? The way you talk on here “force gay porn” etc etc. . Yahtzee! And please for the love of all things human, stop throwing atheist around every corner that doesn’t suit you. Maybe one of your atheist non-gay neighbors will paint your house pink for ya and a nice rainbow. Oh I would LOVE it!
I am a Christian, please stop lumping me with bigots like yourself, and no, I’m not gay, I, a woman, have been married to my husband for 38 years.
Look, much as we know you’re “not all like that”, the fact of the matter is that whoever the leaders are in the open-minded Christian factions don’t have anywhere NEAR the exposure presence and resources of the alleged “Christians” who are exactly “like that”. Furthermore, there are Catholics and “Christians” who say “we’re not all like that”, yet who continue to donate to their churches anyway, giving them more funds to promote discrimination. When a gay person hears someone say “I’m a Christian” he/she has a pretty good idea what their odds are.
We put in the collection to pay for the rent of the building where we meet and the gas and electric. None of our members are rich enough to put in for anything else. My church also knows our feeling on the subject of gay marriage.
Amanda, will you never cease to defy GOD? BE SILENT.
Your personal attacks do nothing more than make me laugh. Apparently what I said is making you a little touchy.
Amanda, he’s obviously one of these people who is on the phone all day to God, so much so that he thinks he IS God. not realising that we don’t need to do that, the Spirit speaks to us when needed.
Oh you have the right to say what you want, dear. However, I know I haven’t misrepresented the bible. I’ve read it. You claim you have but all I see are the usual excuses by a Christian who has only seen what her pastor told her to read.
1. In the commandments, women are considered property. Exodus 20:17. Women are considered no more important than a donkey, slaves, a house, etc. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” See that word belongs? there you go! I don’t belong to anyone. Now let me predict something. You’ll claim that the commandmenets don’t “really” mean that or that they don’t apply anymore. Both excuses are hilarious since yoru supposed savior said all of his father’s laws are still in effect, being that the earth hasn’t passed away. It hasn’t right? if you think it doesn’t really mean that, why you’re just one more theist who has made up their own version of their religion, decideing what god does and doesn’t mean.
2. HIlarious. I love that you want to claim that since no one has ever recorded children being killed then it never ever happened. Aw, dear, how is it that you are sure it would have been recorded? It’s so amusing that Christians like you want to claim that if something isn’t recorded, oh, like Jesus’ existence by the Romans, it’s okay, but if there is no recording, why that means it never happened? Such lovely hypocrisy. I do like how you are okay with killing children as long as it would make children obey. See the Christian love there. And no dear, I have not told you not to refer to the OT. That’s your fellow Christians when they don’t like the OT and what it commands. I have no problem in requiring you to follow your own religion, including the OT since your savior supposed said it was still in force. So, by all means, follow the OT. You know, where it says a rape victim has to marry her attacker, where everyone who works on a “sabbath” should be killed (would really dampen your shopping on a Sunday, wouldn’t it?), that says homosexuals should be killed. All of those inconvenient bits of primitive nonsense. All for you.
3. And ah, the usual attempt of a Christian to ignore her savior. Yep, turn the other cheek, dear. It’s so cute to watch Christians try to excuse themselves. Poor little pastor who defrieded the author of the post wants to claim celebrating the love of two people is a “slap in the face” to him. If you recall, your savior said that if someone slaps you in the face, you are to turn the other for him to slap as well. But we know that rarely happens, that just like you, the one slapped will of course decide that Jesus didn’t really mean that either. And, Amanda Jane, this pastor has no problem in slapping other faces when he tries to claim that his imagianry friend is going to send homosexuals to hell. For all of the claims of love, Christians sure do like to rail about how everyone will be tortured forever.
It’s very nice to see such a person who doesn’t care about the gay community and doesn’t want to know anything about it posting her hate here. Sure, dear, you’re not bigotted at all. You of course wnat to claim that those “other Christians” have taken the bible out of some made up context, but sorry, they’re just as much of a good Christian as you are. You all make up your own god to go with your own hatreds and desires and not one of you can show that you’re any more right than the rest. I have no problem in calling you an idiot, Amanda Jane. You make believe that a god exists and it agrees with you and only you with no evidence whatsoever. You wallow in willful ignorance and hatred. That’s all I need to know.
I’m am truly sorry that you feel the need to spew “hatred” at me when you say that’s what I’m doing. I’m not. I was merely replying to your use of the Bible to further your own means (again, what you say I’m doing). And yes, I have had the proverbial “you’re only spouting what your pastor believes” because obviously, as a Christian I can have no thoughts of my own, right? And I didn’t actually say that no children had ever been killed for disobedience, I said it was never recorded. You want to pick some obscure law out of the Bible and throw it in my face when you won’t accept any of the others. Our world has made such laws illegal. The Bible also told us that we should follow our country’s rules. In the New Testament Jesus told His disciples to render to Ceaser what was his. I’m not going to go around killing my children because they disobey – and I’m sure lots of children disobeyed in Bible times without being killed. I’m sure if we studied that passage in light of Jewish law we would realize that it’s not quite as literal as the English translation makes it. And your verse about women being property is hilarious (see, I can use that word, too!). That would be like me saying I took my son and my dog to the vet to get a shot…I certainly don’t mean that my son got a shot at the vet. You’re applying one word to the entire verse.
I also have to say that these “laws” that keep getting thrown in my face were for the Jews. Since I’m not a Jew I’m not really required to follow them. Hate to tell you that.
Oh, and the Sabbath was actually Saturday not Sunday. I’m not a Jew, I worship on Sunday because that’s the day Christ rose from the grave. And I’m not worshipping in a Jewish temple, I worship in a church. I am a Christian, not a Jew. And the Bible does make a distinction.
I am sorry that you think I “hate” all people. I truly do not. I am trying to open the eyes of those who think all Christians do is hate on others who don’t believe the same way. Not even all Christians believe the same way, in fact, not everyone in my church believes everything the same. But I’m trying to keep my comments open. I’m not the one “throwing” things in your face I’m merely replying to the hatred being thrown at me. I never said homosexuals should be killed. I know that in the New Testament the Bible calls that sin an abomination, not the person, the sin. I never said a single thing against this blogger standing up for his brother. I am merely trying to make people understand that not all Christians are the same and I truly am sorry that you feel the need to throw the Bible in my face and attack me for what I believe. Because, you’re so open-minded, right?
aw, and “thespacebetween”, what lovely foul language and how nice that you can’t even use that right. Why that makes me want to up and become a Christain right now! 🙂 Sorry, dear, but you are trying to prevent people from having equal rights. That’s hateful. I do like to see you lying aka bearing false witness about others. Please do show where homosexual people are anything like you falsely claim. Where is the research to show that they are showing signs of autism, etc. And having 100% belief that they are right and others wrong? Oh my, for someone who wants to play armchair psychiatrist, you sure do project a lot. Thinking that they are 100% right, that they have the real meaning of the universe, that’s in the theist realm, sure that their version of god is the right one and that of course it agrees with them.
It’s rather sad that you have to say that any rights of other people who disagree with you is “more than enough”. I’m sure you’d have been sayign the same thing back 40 years. “Them darkies have more than enough rights”. But I’m pretty sure you are too much of a coward to say that now. And all of the strawman agruments, dear thespacebetween2, ooh yes, everyone will have to watch gay porn. ROFL. You are such a pathetic liar, you poor poor man. And dear, Nazis murdered gay people. It’s always good to see you use the term and have no idea how ironic it is for someone who wants to hurt people for being different. Again, gee, it makes me want to run out and be a Christian, so I can show such Christian love. I am glad that people like you do post on the internet, it keeps the rest of us aware that such ignorant hate still exists. We’ll always be ready for it.
You wrote, “The situation got me thinking: What if this hadn’t been about my brother’s wedding, but about MY wedding? What if it hadn’t been from a distant friend, but from a beloved family member?”
Thank you for evolving and being educated in love based thought. Thank you for a well written testament to the kinship of your brother. Peace
Absolutely amazing story. You sound like a great guy and your brother is so lucky to have you in his life. A lot of people don’t have someone to stand by there side in this harsh and cruel world. I will never understand why some people are so close minded, but they’re the ones who are losing out on life in the long run. I wish you the best and I hope you and your brother stand strong and ignore this judgmental world we live in.
You are so right about our world being judgmental. That term should not be mis-appropriately applied to Christians. Everyone is prejudiced against someone…blacks, Middle Easterns, people who sneeze, people who use crass language, etc. Prejudice is everywhere and to say that you are open-minded is a false statement. I’m sure there is someone, somewhere that turns you off…and that’s your right. We are all offended by something and that is how our world works. There is a Proverb that says Iron sharpeneth iron…sharpening something means there must be conflict. You want everyone to love everyone – where would our world be without conflict? Our world would never evolve or change if everyone liked everything just the way it was. I love my husband but we don’t agree on everything. I don’t call him judgmental and close-minded because of it.
Yet another dim one we have. Your being close minded about what constitutes close minded? Did he attack the guy?Did he call him a name? No. He commited no crime yet you people think you have the right to force us all to watch gay porn? Sick buggers.
and more baseless lies. how cute! I guess all of that stuff in your bible about not lying, not bearing false witness and not even lying if you think it’s for your god (Romans 3) was missed by your supposed readings of it.
Reblogged this on naijaexcellentdotcom2.
Thank you
Beautifully written. I have never understood why people use Facebook as a shield. I am willing to bet he wouldn’t have picked up his phone and “de-friended” you directly.
Excellent post! If the guy had a problem, he could have just defriended you & blocked you without an explanation. I think that would have been the more appropriate response for his disapproval. He does have his right to his opinion, although I don’t agree with him. The world isn’t going to come to an end of two people who love each other & get married… and they happen to be the same sex. I applaud your acceptance of your brother’s orientation, and the fact that you still love him and are an intricate part of his life. So many families break up because of this, and are buried in the shadows of the “evilness” of homosexuality. Can we all just stop judging and learn to love each other as human beings. You set the example, and the bar high. Yay for you! Love this post!
We will stop judginge when your mob stop judging us for having an opinion which differs from yours, you guys are really so blind not to see the hypociracy?
Here’s the thing, Spacebetween. What you have is not an opinion. What you have is an incorrect understanding of a human variation. Your opinion might be “I think the gay sex act is gross.” OK. You’re entitled to that. No problem. Your opinion might be that Christianity is da bomb, the best religion, the capital T truth. Again, totally entitled to that. You might be one who believes in the inerrancy of the Bible. In which case you’re of course entitled, sure, but that has been agreed upon by so many scholars to be incorrect that you look a little foolish clinging to it. You can let go of that and still love Christ and be a very good Christian. In order to hold the “opinion” that homosexuality is a sin, however, you have to be wrong. The ONLY way it can be sinful is if it is a choice, and nearly all medical, psychiatric and psychological experts agree that it is innate – not a choice, just a very normal variation of humanity. So your “opinion” is actually an impossibility. You are simply wrong. And we are simply calling you on it. Out loud, finally. I am a straight ally, with two straight teenage daughters who both have LGBT friends who are WONDERFUL young people. They deserve a better world, and I will fight for that. Againt those of you who are wrong.
Damn straight. In every single post I’ve noticed recurring instances of ‘atheist,’ mixed in with ‘Hitler’. I’m straight. And Atheist. And not Hitler. I also put my signature on the line to serve our country at age 17 but I suppose that goes back to being Hitler instead of patriotic. Anywho, I’m done with this thread now. Final word is this: Atheists leave Christians to their own thing. Christians don’t even do that for other Christians. Look at the pro and non-pro Christian comments at each other. Think about it. Why fight against the gay community who own businesses, pay their taxes, build lives and contribute to society in a positive manner? Yes there are gay drama queens, same as straight drama queens. They just portray their drama in different ways. Fact is, human should be the term. Peace, love, and freedom ya’ll.
I don’t attack others who have views which oppose my own. Only support those who show others unconditional love. The world needs more of that, in my opinion. I am a fervent supporter of freedom, and am grateful to live in a country in which we are able to make choices. I would not want my beliefs or opinions to be forced upon another. In that essence, I do not see myself as being a hypocrite. Everyone has his/her right to his/her own opinions, it is how we choose to share our opposition to others that can cause others hurt and pain.